Stockport post match reflections

[RU66]

I'd agree with that because not only is Rafferty better suited to a flat 4 (IMHO) but he's so strong in that role that Martha would end up almost how Chieo finished as a dedicated RW/floating forward role. I've seen Martha have a couple of flashpoints with opposing players and it looked like there's a bit more to him than people think... but it may need his temper to have gone to get there, so maybe that's just someone to fire him up a bit. He does need a regular role, and for fans to accept that some players aren't well suited to switching positions every game.

I don't Wilkes was a far better player than Martha once moved more central up front. On the right cutting inside didn't work with him though.

[UlleyMiller]

I don't Wilkes was a far better player than Martha once moved more central up front. On the right cutting inside didn't work with him though.

Wilkes was a far better player when he was moved to a position Martha hasn't been put in...? (Plus obligatory 'cutting in is bad' statement).

McGuckin would've done better...

[Brin]

You absolutely do need those lads. There's no sense in thinking Martha is a wing back, a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box player. His talent is obvious, the role he needs to play is clearly up top, and like any forward they're going to frustrate a lot of the time. It's a shame that fans want to show people the door rather than point to how they could be better deployed. We'll always have a hard time at this club because our fans fundamentally do two things consistently: 1) Divide on managerial appointments, and 2) Have next-to no patience with any 'flair' players who don't break their backs to defend aswell.

You're right, bit of breath wasting.

Ulley, both TLC and yourself make fair points on Martha. You're not wasting your breath you're just voicing your personal opinion like I have. I'm in agreement with TLC that he's a flair player and like you I do believe there's a player there somewhere but I've yet to see it.

He's got to be talented otherwise like another poster said, he wouldn't have made it through the Ajax ranks. at the moment he's simply not delivering. Neither, can we afford to experiment with him in the side until he finds his natural position. We are fighting for our League 1 retention so can ill afford to dally with him.

Had we been comfortable say around 8th - 10th then yes by all means we could have tried him here there and everywhere but, that is a luxury we do not have. He was brought in specifically to perform in a wing back role. I've yet to see him do that. He's not interested in tracking back or going in for a tackle. I am not singling just him out but where do we play him?

You say he needs to play up top. He's neither physically built or has the strength to playing totally up top. Playing off the likes of Nombe might have worked? but now Gray has been brought in, where exactly does he fit in on top? If Hamshaw manages to get Ryan One from S2 then he's pushed even further down the front pecking order. I can only see it working for him and the team if Hamshaw reverts to a solid back four and he's given a role has a winger down the right, he has the speed, the agility to pass players, if he doesn't showboat trying to take too many players on, and has a shot on him. Other than that, he's going to be on the bench, was he brought in to do that?

[caytonmiller]

Martha never has, nor will be a good footballer..
Ajax have hundreds of players going through the ranks. They got rid for a reason. Just because he was there doesn't mean he's any good. And nobody can name a game he's shone in...I would argue jack Holmes has looked a better player than Martha and he's non league at best

[Yak]

Martha never has, nor will be a good footballer..
Ajax have hundreds of players going through the ranks. They got rid for a reason. Just because he was there doesn't mean he's any good. And nobody can name a game he's shone in...I would argue jack Holmes has looked a better player than Martha and he's non league at best

Dont particularly rate him but he played well against Bradford at home.

[Tigerish]

Martha is a brilliant five a side player
Unfortunately he has to play against six more

[Tigerish]

Martha is a brilliant five a side player
Unfortunately he has to play against six more

[Derbymiller]

Martha hasn’t been the same since they qualified for the World Cup, I think his mind is focused on the summer. He knows we get a lot of injuries and have a poor recovery record, lots of repeat injuries. The lad isn’t bothered in my opinion.

[UlleyMiller]

Ulley, both TLC and yourself make fair points on Martha. You're not wasting your breath you're just voicing your personal opinion like I have. I'm in agreement with TLC that he's a flair player and like you I do believe there's a player there somewhere but I've yet to see it.

He's got to be talented otherwise like another poster said, he wouldn't have made it through the Ajax ranks. at the moment he's simply not delivering. Neither, can we afford to experiment with him in the side until he finds his natural position. We are fighting for our League 1 retention so can ill afford to dally with him.

Had we been comfortable say around 8th - 10th then yes by all means we could have tried him here there and everywhere but, that is a luxury we do not have. He was brought in specifically to perform in a wing back role. I've yet to see him do that. He's not interested in tracking back or going in for a tackle. I am not singling just him out but where do we play him?

You say he needs to play up top. He's neither physically built or has the strength to playing totally up top. Playing off the likes of Nombe might have worked? but now Gray has been brought in, where exactly does he fit in on top? If Hamshaw manages to get Ryan One from S2 then he's pushed even further down the front pecking order. I can only see it working for him and the team if Hamshaw reverts to a solid back four and he's given a role has a winger down the right, he has the speed, the agility to pass players, if he doesn't showboat trying to take too many players on, and has a shot on him. Other than that, he's going to be on the bench, was he brought in to do that?

The point I made about wasting my breath (although slightly tongue in cheek) was about the fact the board has a number of trolls who spent a lot of the season very quiet (too early to judge MH, or we were playing well, etc), then exploded into life the minute things went south. I'm not exaggerating this, it was in plain sight around the games with Burton and Lincoln when 'sides' were forming. Some of the more prolific trolls were sowing the seeds as early as Port Vale, and waited until the first grumble from elsewhere before getting the knives out. These aren't fans, they're just the sort of stains our club has carried in the 40-odd years I've been any part of it. Whenever there's a dip in form, they're after anyone they can to pin things on, and it's been MH since the start and now Martha. I'm not going to list them (because there's already too much focus on blaming), but there are other players who have turned out tragic performances and/or consistently off-pace performances this season... but the nature of RUFC is that we'll always have a small number of people who like to moan. One of the dips***s even complains about MH being defended when literally nobody in that particular thread has defended him... that's how hell-bent on trolling they are.

There are some great fans too, some who trek all over the country in all weathers at significant cost to watch the team, and they complain when we're down, but they generally enjoy the good performances and sing the praises of anyone quite freely. We all know who they are, and we all know who the others are who sit like sad little tw@s waiting to jump on the first bit of 'proof' to further their cause and have another whinge. The latter are not fans.

Martha needs a run in the team in a forward role. Not a number 9, but a free-ish forward role. He needs to lose the world cup hangover (mentioned elsewhere, and I agree with this... it does seem to coincide with his form) and get stuck in. He has had good games, he can take the piss out of defenders, and he's stronger than he looks (I'll happily die on the hill arguing all those because I've sat yards from him, watching it). Gray is going to disrupt the options, but guess what... Martha is ours, Gray is some weird publicity stunt from what I've seen so far. Feels like we're being used to elevate him rather than a mutually beneficial deal. Martha's development matters far more than Gray's.

Here's another thought, MH is (almost universally) acknowledged to be getting the formation wrong, and (less universally agreed, but still commonly said) isn't getting the most out of all the players. It's a foolish position, therefore, to suggest Martha couldn't give us more if the formation changed and if MH were to move.

[caytonmiller]

Ulley. Do we really need a player who cruises through games just because he could be in the world cup.
Imo he's not taking it easy because if he doesn't perform he won't be going to the world cup.
It takes a certain player to play in league 1. They are either above AVG or a seasoned lower league player. Maybe he would look better in the championship. He's deffo not what Rufc need

[UlleyMiller]

Ulley. Do we really need a player who cruises through games just because he could be in the world cup.
Imo he's not taking it easy because if he doesn't perform he won't be going to the world cup.
It takes a certain player to play in league 1. They are either above AVG or a seasoned lower league player. Maybe he would look better in the championship. He's deffo not what Rufc need

You're opinion, very different to mine. The question is loaded - no, we don't need a player who cruises through games, but that's not the real question. The real question is can we get a formation that gets more out of him (we pretty much all know we have to shift things around). I believe we can. He's only played two full games with Nombe, and we scored 5 in those games (Martha got one of them)... a fast, skilled, unpredictable player is not suited to playing with Hugill, but with Nombe... who knows.

[UlleyMiller]

You're opinion, very different to mine. The question is loaded - no, we don't need a player who cruises through games, but that's not the real question. The real question is can we get a formation that gets more out of him (we pretty much all know we have to shift things around). I believe we can. He's only played two full games with Nombe, and we scored 5 in those games (Martha got one of them)... a fast, skilled, unpredictable player is not suited to playing with Hugill, but with Nombe... who knows.

*Your
My mobile makes some odd corrections.

[Derbymiller]

You're opinion, very different to mine. The question is loaded - no, we don't need a player who cruises through games, but that's not the real question. The real question is can we get a formation that gets more out of him (we pretty much all know we have to shift things around). I believe we can. He's only played two full games with Nombe, and we scored 5 in those games (Martha got one of them)... a fast, skilled, unpredictable player is not suited to playing with Hugill, but with Nombe... who knows.

That is a very good point about him playing in a team with Nombe, it will be interesting to watch that in the coming weeks if they both stay fit and MH doesn't play him as a wing-back.