OT Border Control State of Emergency

[animallittle3]

That's a very interesting take on it animal. The same report also confirms that any migrant who arrives earning an average UK salarywhich includes the majority of medium and high skills imported migrants are actually offering a significantly greater financial gain the the UK economy, significantly more than a domestic citizen.

Now bear in mind that 53% of migrants who entered the UK in 2024 are High Skills, and therfore will bring in a much higher economic gain and 22% arrive to fill medium skilled roles, that makes up 80% of migrants entering in 2024 who are high/medium skilled are therefore bringing much higher economic benefit than the domestic workforce. I didn't know that before, so thanks for this link.

So, you are correct in that the remaining 20% are a net drain on the UK economy. However, the majority of these have directly entered the social care sector, which surely we can agree are hugely, hugely valuable jobs that have to be done. The visas were granted as we were't filling them domestically - so either we imported low skills workers, together with their net economic drainor we have a huge number of vacancies in the health and social care sector. We'd also probably both agree that there is no way that these jobs, which have their own extremely complex skills set and emotional demands should be neither called 'low skills' or should be low paid? Would we agree on that? Perhaps then we may be able to attract more domestic workers into these positions.

So isn't the answer that we simply raise the status of this sector or work, and pay them a better wage? Again, it boils down to cost - who is going to pay for it?

This is one of the points I always raised about membership of the EU , the free movement of labour had a detrimental impact on wages , any time you have an abundance of cheap labour available it's obviously bound to suppress wages .

This is why the old left of which I was once from was so fundamentally against membership of the EU , the left that had Dennis Skinner , Tony Benn and the vast majority of the trade unions in it's ranks , British jobs for British workers and a full rejection of a globalised economy .

The left / progressives of today have of course a totally different view , this can possibly be traced back to many having enjoyed the fruits of Thatcherism , a Tony Blair type university education , if you can indeed call it an education and a very nauseating and superior attitude towards those from areas that didn't do so well under Thatcher and Blair .

Of course the social care and other lower paid jobs have to be done and people recruited to do them irrespective of where they come from , the negative economic impact they bring for the rest of their lives appears to be something that has to be accepted , just as long as the progressives or their children aren't the ones doing it will continue to sit fine of course .

Every Guardian reading progressive should probably have a portrait of Margaret Thatcher in their front room or their office which they visit once a week when not working from home .

Equality is a wonderful belief trait to have especially when you can't you've actually been played since 1979 .

[ragingpup]

This is one of the points I always raised about membership of the EU , the free movement of labour had a detrimental impact on wages , any time you have an abundance of cheap labour available it's obviously bound to suppress wages .

This is why the old left of which I was once from was so fundamentally against membership of the EU , the left that had Dennis Skinner , Tony Benn and the vast majority of the trade unions in it's ranks , British jobs for British workers and a full rejection of a globalised economy .

The left / progressives of today have of course a totally different view , this can possibly be traced back to many having enjoyed the fruits of Thatcherism , a Tony Blair type university education , if you can indeed call it an education and a very nauseating and superior attitude towards those from areas that didn't do so well under Thatcher and Blair .

Of course the social care and other lower paid jobs have to be done and people recruited to do them irrespective of where they come from , the negative economic impact they bring for the rest of their lives appears to be something that has to be accepted , just as long as the progressives or their children aren't the ones doing it will continue to sit fine of course .

Every Guardian reading progressive should probably have a portrait of Margaret Thatcher in their front room or their office which they visit once a week when not working from home .

Equality is a wonderful belief trait to have especially when you can't you've actually been played since 1979 .

Interesting perspectives, well put animal. It looks to me though that you are focusing only on the trade off of membership of the EU but not at least ackowledging the economically positive aspects of trading with our nearest countries in a market that eliminates trade barriers and frictions, and therefore bringing in gains to business and economy that wouldn't have been possible without that membership. That doesn't negate your argument at all, it was a balance. Again I'm picking up the tone of bitterness, the blame of Guardian elites and equating them with Thatcher love. But in the real world, many of us came from pit villages, can remember our school bus driving through miner's protests at Silverwood, but at the same time, I was the first in my community (or at least in my family and social circles which were mainly steelworker/pit offsprings) as a young adult that did gain access to University and that was life changing for me. But it doesn't change my hatred of Thatcher most notably for her 'no such thing as society' speel, the destruction of my home community, my dad's downwards spiral after redundancy.

Society did hugely change, and not for the good for many people. I recognise that and the strength of feeling and disillusion behind your words. But my feeling is the lack of regulation to the free market forces, not raising our own worker protections, pay levels - all of which we were free to do in the EU, is more responsible for the negatives we face now ather than shining a light on low level immigrants when they are simply filling in the ot holes left by the unregulated free market ideology Thatcher accelerated.

[animallittle3]

Interesting perspectives, well put animal. It looks to me though that you are focusing only on the trade off of membership of the EU but not at least ackowledging the economically positive aspects of trading with our nearest countries in a market that eliminates trade barriers and frictions, and therefore bringing in gains to business and economy that wouldn't have been possible without that membership. That doesn't negate your argument at all, it was a balance. Again I'm picking up the tone of bitterness, the blame of Guardian elites and equating them with Thatcher love. But in the real world, many of us came from pit villages, can remember our school bus driving through miner's protests at Silverwood, but at the same time, I was the first in my community (or at least in my family and social circles which were mainly steelworker/pit offsprings) as a young adult that did gain access to University and that was life changing for me. But it doesn't change my hatred of Thatcher most notably for her 'no such thing as society' speel, the destruction of my home community, my dad's downwards spiral after redundancy.

Society did hugely change, and not for the good for many people. I recognise that and the strength of feeling and disillusion behind your words. But my feeling is the lack of regulation to the free market forces, not raising our own worker protections, pay levels - all of which we were free to do in the EU, is more responsible for the negatives we face now ather than shining a light on low level immigrants when they are simply filling in the ot holes left by the unregulated free market ideology Thatcher accelerated.

I probably on reflection should have put inadvertently when it comes to Thatcher or possibly Blair and the Guardian elites .

For the record I dont see any evidence that you yourself come from that demographic even though we dont necessarily agree on this topic .

I'm not actually bitter , I've done alright and much of the past has left me , I find myself today in a position of political homelessness , the real kicker is the fact there are millions like me .

I'd never vote Tory for obvious reasons , Labour are just simply appalling and whilst Reform tick some boxes on immigration I wouldn't trust Farage to tell me the right time of day .

The real sadness I have and I take the point nostalgia can play tricks on you but I firmly believe the country was way better before Blair came to power .

Nothing I see tells me open borders , mass immigration and global economies have made the country better , in fact I'd say the exact opposite .

People such as Peter Shore and Enoch Powell warned anyone who cared to listen and were vilified for it within their own party's .

[Scum-Triumphant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv723892po

Who are killing the Swans?

[Timbertop]

And who finances the Socialist Worker Party placards which appear at every protest meeting ?

[MillerBill]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv723892po

Who are killing the Swans?

Funny how the BBC happen to find a Geordie lad as a swan killer and don't publicise any others.

[ragingpup]

And who finances the Socialist Worker Party placards which appear at every protest meeting ?

Not a subscriber nor particularly have much patience with people who insist on calling each other "comrades" but I think they fund their pieces of wood and cardboard by reader subscriptions

[MillerBill]

And who finances the Socialist Worker Party placards which appear at every protest meeting ?

Billionaire George Soros is a big cash supplier and certain unions contribute to this nasty extremist far left organisation.Today over a thousand have crossed the water from France in the small boat taxi service.When the weather is kind the numbers explode.We are told by the mainstream media we have a very tough Home Sectretary in charge now.Nothing's changed,it's getting worse and us taxpayers are funding all this .

[Eternal Optimist]

Billionaire George Soros is a big cash supplier and certain unions contribute to this nasty extremist far left organisation.Today over a thousand have crossed the water from France in the small boat taxi service.When the weather is kind the numbers explode.We are told by the mainstream media we have a very tough Home Sectretary in charge now.Nothing's changed,it's getting worse and us taxpayers are funding all this .

Trump is fully aware of this evil git - he's gunning for him...

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1...tion-doj-trump

[frogmiller]

Trump is fully aware of this evil git - he's gunning for him...

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1...tion-doj-trump

Is he the guy that bet against the pound years ago and caused a crash in the uk economy?

Is it the same guy the created many, many, many NCOs that took billions from a lot of governments around the world to produce humanitarian aid that produced next to nowt? He has created many charities that have also helped folk in French speaking islands that have left others like Ixfam being left in disrepute.

Obviously someone will correct me with some bullsyte but hey Dip your bread and show your face you Fabian ****!

[Eternal Optimist]

100%.

[Eternal Optimist]

I've just this minute heard that Trump has declared that 'Antifa' are a terrorist organisation.

You'll never believe who's been funding them...

[MillerBill]

The Home Secretary has reported that we have returned 19 illegal migrants and said this would be stop anybody coming here illegally.We had 1075 arrive in one day this week,they're just laughing at us.

[Spuddy Speight]

The dinghies are getting bigger.
They should make the people from faraway places pay for their own legal aid too.
We are living in the best of times.
We are also living in the worst of times.
MSM, the media and internet feed off our worst fears thus adding fuel to fire.

Someone is making a fortune from the production and selling of flags.

Don't get me started on the proposed mandatory ID card scheme. It's an affront to our very existence and free will.

I wonder what Margaret Thatcher would have done about all the nonsense?
Love her or loathe her it's an interesting point.

[animallittle3]

The dinghies are getting bigger.
They should make the people from faraway places pay for their own legal aid too.
We are living in the best of times.
We are also living in the worst of times.
MSM, the media and internet feed off our worst fears thus adding fuel to fire.

Someone is making a fortune from the production and selling of flags.

Don't get me started on the proposed mandatory ID card scheme. It's an affront to our very existence and free will.

I wonder what Margaret Thatcher would have done about all the nonsense?
Love her or loathe her it's an interesting point.

It's an interesting point you make about what would Thatcher do and i can see where you are coming from .

I find it difficult to say because the UK under Thatcher is no longer the UK of today even though much of her economic policy is still very much with us .

We'd still be in the EU for starters , she was very pro EU and helped create the single market but at the same time I dont believe she would have open the borders up as Blair did and I believe she would have placed way more control over the numbers arriving from eastern Europe .

I think she would have used the Dublin Agreement way more than recent government's ever did when it came to asylum seekers , there was plenty to dislike about Thatcher for me personally but you can't dispute the fact that she stuck up for the UK and wouldn't have us taken for fools , the rebate she got from the EU was one example and she didn't much care for the rule book when she ordered the Belgrano to be sunk during the Falklands War .

The immigration debate of today starts with the Blair government and was followed on by 14 years of Tory government's and it's difficult to see how Thatcher would have risen up the ranks of the Tory Party in today's UK , Johnson would probably have sacked her because of her pro EU allegiance if she'd sat around the cabinet under him .