Charlie Kirk has been shot and as sadley died

[Q165]

A violent killing such as this is desperately sad and wholly inexcusable. But what also sickens me is Donald Trump. I despise him. I believe that his words at this time are a total front. He doesn’t care about Kirk. He cares about nobody and nothing but himself. At this moment he is alarmed by other events that are taking place and how they might impact upon him. I listen to the things being said at his ‘press conferences’ (they are no such thing) and it is clear that as much diversion as possible is trying to be created and is his strategy. He is a very worried man but for him this is one really massive diversion. I bet he can’t believe his good fortune.

[Albionic68]

Absolute madness. It just shows you how divisive politics is right now........

'What kind of an American are you?'

[baggieal]

A violent killing such as this is desperately sad and wholly inexcusable. But what also sickens me is Donald Trump. I despise him. I believe that his words at this time are a total front. He doesn’t care about Kirk. He cares about nobody and nothing but himself. At this moment he is alarmed by other events that are taking place and how they might impact upon him. I listen to the things being said at his ‘press conferences’ (they are no such thing) and it is clear that as much diversion as possible is trying to be created and is his strategy. He is a very worried man but for him this is one really massive diversion. I bet he can’t believe his good fortune.

Maybe so but if there was another ejection now in the USA - I would bet Trump would get in. He?s almost sorted illegal immigration out and for the first time he?s given Ukraine permission to buy and fire long range missiles. Sleepy Joe did not.

So on the basic above - if there was another election would Labour get back in? Absolutely no chance!

We need to start looking at home before we criticise someone else?s leader rightly or wrongly! Starmer is a complete and utter disgrace so that?s perhaps the starting point.

[soulman101]

The President elect of the Oxford union has been tweeting and sharing celebrating Charlie Kirk death .
Even if he disagreed with Charlie ,his wife and 2 young children are in shock and morning ,how can people sink so low .

[Omegstrat6]

I think that what is happening in the US both culturally and politically is reflected to various degrees here in the UK and across much of Europe. There is indeed a kind of "crisis for democracy" which has led to an increase in populism and support for more far right political parties. The latter don't seem to offer real solutions to the problems many ordinary people face but they do reflect their growing frustrations and provide easy scapegoats.

As for the drivers of this, it seems pretty clear to me that the biggest one is growing economic and social inequality where the divide between the have and have nots is larger than it has been for some time. This leads to resentment, frustration and anger which is fertile ground for more extreme political groups to feed on. Changes in cultural values and perhaps an over tolerance for minority viewpoints has also had its impact. The so called "paradox of intolerance" where an overly tolerant society can lead to increased intolerance (e.g. "cancel culture").

I would bet, however, that if you asked most people what their biggest concern was, it would be immigration. Immigration is undeniably a genuine concern (and this includes the fact that a whole fifth of our workforce is foreign born mainly because Brits don't want to do the lower paid jobs and we don't produce enough of our own capable enough to fulfil the needs in certain higher paid sectors). Allowing so many thousands more into a country each year IS unsustainable as it puts far too much of a burden on health, education, housing and other systems and is far too much of an expense on the public purse. These issues are further inflamed by fears of a kind of cultural take over and degrees of Islamaphobia.

Many illegal immigrants come from countries where violence is a way of life, most have been exploited and some are indeed involved themselves in criminal activity but the majority are simply seeking to make a better life for themselves and family and want to work and contribute. The right, however, seize upon immigration as the root cause of the frustrations so many currently feel. Certainly, the levels of immigration and our lack of control over illegal immigration particularly are very genuine concerns but I would strongly argue that they are not the real cause of social and economic inequalities. Much of that comes from the failings of our own politicians and decisions they have made over the years.

As Al says, however much many may dislike Trump, he is likely to remain supported by most Americans because there simply appears to be no viable alternative leader who might be capable of uniting an increasingly divisive country. As for the UK, I personally think that Starmer does try to do the right thing on some issues but he is far too weak and inept and consistently fails to read the room. Sadly, the current alternatives are either Nige or Bad Enoch. Not great is it ? If only there was another Andy Burnham style candidate....

And all this at a time when the rise of China and Russia pose a growing threat to Western stability too!

[Omegstrat6]

The President elect of the Oxford union has been tweeting and sharing celebrating Charlie Kirk death .
Even if he disagreed with Charlie ,his wife and 2 young children are in shock and morning ,how can people sink so low .

My youngest showed me comments that some people he speaks to on his gaming platforms (mostly in the US) have been putting up saying similar stuff. He has known these people for years and has tried to argue that, whilst he didn't like Kirk or what he stood for, killing him was an appalling thing to happen and something that should not happen in a democratic country where they have the opportunity to oppose such views without having to resort to violence. He was genuinely shocked that people he had considered friends would express opinions like this.

[baggiematt]

Maybe so but if there was another ejection now in the USA - I would bet Trump would get in. He?s almost sorted illegal immigration out and for the first time he?s given Ukraine permission to buy and fire long range missiles. Sleepy Joe did not.

So on the basic above - if there was another election would Labour get back in? Absolutely no chance!

We need to start looking at home before we criticise someone else?s leader rightly or wrongly! Starmer is a complete and utter disgrace so that?s perhaps the starting point.

His current 42% approval rating suggests you are incorrect.

Even if his approval rating was good you have to remember that Hitler was remarkably popular in Germany until 1945!

[baggieal]

His current 42% approval rating suggests you are incorrect.

Even if his approval rating was good you have to remember that Hitler was remarkably popular in Germany until 1945!

Put it this way - he?s far more popular and liked than Starmer will ever be. Likability does not come into it - Blair could talk the talk but he was an absolute w anker who took us to a war without reason - scrapped the 11+ grammar school system and introduced sky high fees to universities.

I don?t mind a leader who is horrible if he fixes what needs to be fixed. Trump has curbed illegal immigration and for the first time of a US leader allowed long range missiles to be fired by the Ukrainians. Sleepy Joe the wet liberal refused for long range missiles to be used or fired.

I dislike Trump don?t get me wrong but he?s not our leader and I dislike Starmer more as he?s proving to be the worst PM in history with the clowns that surround him. Even the Tory leader makes mincemeat out of him at question time.

[baggieal]

The President elect of the Oxford union has been tweeting and sharing celebrating Charlie Kirk death .
Even if he disagreed with Charlie ,his wife and 2 young children are in shock and morning ,how can people sink so low .

This imbecile should be thrown out Lloyd. He?s a man of colour so would he go running to the Police if someone make a disgusting comment about him? Bet your life on it!!

[Omegstrat6]

His current 42% approval rating suggests you are incorrect.

Even if his approval rating was good you have to remember that Hitler was remarkably popular in Germany until 1945!

Think you are right Matt that an increasing number of Trump voters are having second thoughts as-despite his various boasts-the American economy is not doing as well as he says it is and people's own personal circumstances have not improved. I'm sure that his willingness to send armed National Guard into US cities whilst being reluctant to stand up to Putin or reign Netanyahu in hasn't gone down too well with many non core MAGA voters either. Even so, I'm sadly still not seeing a viable alternative leader emerge that can threaten his position.

[Omegstrat6]

This imbecile should be thrown out Lloyd. He?s a man of colour so would he go running to the Police if someone make a disgusting comment about him? Bet your life on it!!

Kirk held quite a lot of hateful beliefs that he sought to spread amongst others but if the president of the Oxford Union posted tweets celebrating his killing then no way should he be allowed to hold that position. He should hang his head in shame at expressing such opinions and resign but I bet he wont. You cannot decry hate speech on one hand but act similarly on the other. Lets see if the student body do the right thing and dismiss him.

[Albionic68]

.........Lets see if the student body do the right thing and dismiss him.

I sincerely hope you have a conveniently placed oxygen bottle placed nearby Omeg. Wouldn't want you to risk holding your breath for however long that could take 😉.

[Omegstrat6]

I sincerely hope you have a conveniently placed oxygen bottle placed nearby Omeg. Wouldn't want you to risk holding your breath for however long that could take 😉.

Sadly, think you are right there 68!

PS (Enjoyed your Polish drone pun btw

[baggieal]

Looks like they have the shooter responsible and he?s a 22 year old. Utah are asking for the death penalty for this case. If it?s cast iron then yes he should be put to death. No ifs or buts but eliminated.

We too should do this in certain cases where it?s cast iron ie that cop who kidnapped, raped and brutally murdered that young girl.

[baggieal]

Kirk held quite a lot of hateful beliefs that he sought to spread amongst others but if the president of the Oxford Union posted tweets celebrating his killing then no way should he be allowed to hold that position. He should hang his head in shame at expressing such opinions and resign but I bet he wont. You cannot decry hate speech on one hand but act similarly on the other. Let?s see if the student body do the right thing and dismiss him.

Not a chance Omeg in our woke country. When this disgusting piece of filth and a man of colour gets racially abused - he will be the first to run to the police or file a complaint.