Gary(kin) lineker.

The blame for this situation lies with Cameron for being such a wet f a n n y and for the Europeans refusing to budge an inch on free movement.

I’ve brought this up many times but nobody gives a coherent response on the “remain” side.

We are a small island and if nett immigration continued at 300,000 per year then at what point in the next 100-200 years would shutting the door become neccessity as we’d be stood shoulder to shoulder and would need to s h I t standing up and ask the person next to us to wipe our a r s e whilst in return doing the same for them!

It needed the “European Elite” including idiots like Cameron to have the nous to come up with a mathematical formula that allowed residency to be taken up based on land mass of a country for example.

Or how about the EU be made responsible for a rebate of X thousands of pounds for each nett migrator at the rate required to cover the social costs of that person until they are in full time work and not sponging off welfare.

The problem with most in power is that they are “career” politicians and have never had a proper job.

I’d rather have a Prime Minister who has had success in the world of business running my country,the ability to negotiate in a “hard nosed” fashion is lost on wets like May and Cameron.

I don’t care if that person is from the left or from the right ......just someone who is a streetwise operator.

Andy Street who ran John Lewis and is now mayor of Brum would do a better job......so too would Bob Geldof......anybody but the present t w a t s.

I voted out on the basis that I knew what I was voting for but I never thought for a minute the negotiations would be so shambolic and one sided.

Cameron should’ve told Juncker and Merkel that failure of Europe to come up with a decent compromise would mean he would have no choice other than to put our membership to a vote that he would likely lose.

Total incompetence on both sides.

Although I voted out I’d probably go the other way now such has been the cluster f u c k.

One of my points is that whether you are a remainder or a leaver, if the process becomes a complete shambles the you are better off dumping the whole deal. A lot of people voted leave purely on the immigration issue, but if you want to keep some semblance of national identity, then you are better off with European immigrants than non European ones. Essentially, voting leave means that you didn’t understand the implications of what you were voting for. Sorry to say this to fellow Baggies, but if you voted leave, then you just didn’t understand what was involved.

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Originally Posted by kettering_baggie

Sorry to say this to fellow Baggies, but if you voted leave, then you just didn’t understand what was involved.

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Sorry to say this, but I'd politely suggest there are a good many others who'd point the same suggestion at yourself having voted remain.

And so we go on..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH7Z1Tjom8

Just because somebody disagrees with you it doesn't mean they're wrong, it means they see things differently to you and interpret them accordingly.

If you are not given the facts, how can you come to the correct decision? What the whole fiasco proves, though, is that the country should not be governed by referenda, it just splits society down the middle. I honestly cannot see how a satisfactory outcome is possible from the current shambles. There is nobody that can be seen as someone that has any idea as to how this can all be brought together for a satisfactory outcome, whether it be for leave or remain. I honestly don’t believe that the general public was in a position to understand all the implications of leaving the EU. Let’s remember that for over 40 years the UK has helped draw up the rules and regulations of the EU; surely we’d be better off staying in and helping to shape the future?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kettering_baggie

If you are not given the facts, how can you come to the correct decision? What the whole fiasco proves, though, is that the country should not be governed by referenda, it just splits society down the middle. I honestly cannot see how a satisfactory outcome is possible from the current shambles. There is nobody that can be seen as someone that has any idea as to how this can all be brought together for a satisfactory outcome, whether it be for leave or remain. I honestly don’t believe that the general public was in a position to understand all the implications of leaving the EU. Let’s remember that for over 40 years the UK has helped draw up the rules and regulations of the EU; surely we’d be better off staying in and helping to shape the future?

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Some of us have at least as many brain cells as you Kets so it’s condescending to say we “didn’t know what we were voting for” so maybe give that one a rest!

We build around 120,000 new homes a year in the U.K. yet we were letting over 300,000 in nett migration come in.

We have a housing crisis for those already here and you think that’s okay and we add another 300,000 a year to that problem.

Maybe you should rent out your spare room mate.....like in my locality where they found 47 Romanians sharing the same flat!

I knew what I was voting for,what I didn’t know was that there was no exit plan in place......THAT is my problem.

How big is your spare room by the way!?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kettering_baggie

If you are not given the facts, how can you come to the correct decision? What the whole fiasco proves, though, is that the country should not be governed by referenda, it just splits society down the middle. I honestly cannot see how a satisfactory outcome is possible from the current shambles. There is nobody that can be seen as someone that has any idea as to how this can all be brought together for a satisfactory outcome, whether it be for leave or remain. I honestly don’t believe that the general public was in a position to understand all the implications of leaving the EU. Let’s remember that for over 40 years the UK has helped draw up the rules and regulations of the EU; surely we’d be better off staying in and helping to shape the future?

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There are facts and then there are facts, it's up to the electorate to access information and inform their own opinion to expand upon what is fed to them. Did voters from either side do it? I've no idea beyond what people say/post other than knowing that I did. Did voters place their mark for leave through fear of immigration? I dare say many did. Did many vote remain through fear of the unknown? I dare say many did. Personally I think it's great that opinion was split down the middle in so much as it reinvigorated debate and the national interest in politics. What I don't think is great is that many decry the intelligence of others for holding a different opinion.

I respect the fact that others feel differently to me, I do not belittle their thought process or final decision. Further to this I think it's absolutely shocking that party politics is clearly coming before a strong alliance regarding negotiations. Don't fear change, embrace it. Take it on. Find a new path. The old one was broken and in need of repair. Those in power had little interest in the 'general public' and that was their arrogant downfall. Rather than repair the path it had become time for a new one.

Of course we don't know where we're going, as you've stated we've been in the EU for so long. But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see where the EU was heading, be that with or without us as part of it. As for the so called 'negotiations' you can see exactly what the EU commissionaires thought/think of us, and it really wasn't a great deal. We want to trade with them under our own rules, they want to break us!

Time for change and more than high time for those who 'earn' a wedge from politics to deliver. And it's not beyond the whit of man (or woman) to realise we'll only get the best deal if we present a united front in negotiations, deal with our soon to be (hopefully) former EU partners and move on together as external trading partners as best we can.

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Originally Posted by albion68

Got his snout in the Brexit farce, this over paid (by us) tossa. Saying Brexit is a disaster and a shambles,it’s a shambles because what ever the government or who ever else puts pen to paper the EU will knock back. these unelected bureaucrats will do this so lineker and his champagne socialists money pals get there way. well mr lineker I knew exactly what I was voting for and 17million other folk. so just put your smarmy face in them crisp packets what you get paid astronomical fees for.rant over,blood pressure up.

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I hate posting about politics on a football forum.

Now look what you've started XD :P ;D .

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Originally Posted by Albionic68

I hate posting about politics on a football forum.

Now look what you've started XD :P ;D .

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big sorry 68. just to add about the shambles,it’s a shambles because the EU wants it to be a shambles .the more of a mess it becomes the more there’s doing there job.1,putting to fear into the rest of the bloc.2,putting the frightners on folk like Kettering baggie and all the gravy train passengers .barnier and junker and co are privately kaking themselves .it just needs a someone like the Aussie government who I call brits who’ve still got the balls .to just **** off .

In the heat not light debate about brexit I wonder why the state of the EU itself is not seen as a facctor.
Italy is close to default- September is the bet- that will wreck the Euro. The austerity caused and demanded by EU to Greece, Ireland, Spain, portugal.
The growing resistance to free movement in EU- notably Hungary, Austria with government support, the rise of anti- imigration in Holland, France, Italy.
The rise of anti EU parties in France, Italy .
The immigration effects on the whole of Europe, the realities in Sweden , the nightly riots in Paris.

The welfare state model of the EU cannot sustain itself as the economic power goes to the East and the poor go West

The reality is this is EU bureauracy v nation state sovereignity.
Unelected officials v the democratically elected

It's like rowing towards the Titanic.

Whether we should have had a referundum or not, we did, and the democratic outcome was that we voted to leave. If we had voted to remain, those who voted to exit would have accepted the vote and not acted in the same arrogant fashion that the remainers have. The problem is that too many of those who voted to remain have a vested interest in staying in the EU, e.g. the House of Lords, many of whom own large swathes of land that they receive huge subsides for.

Yes, we have handled negotiations very badly in my opinion, but what can you expect when you haven't got a united front. Again those who wanted to remain are the problem. How can we negotiate successfully when you have some basically 'batting for the opposition'.

My own opinion is that, with the exception of FIFA under Blatter, the EU is as corrupt an institution as you can find. We hold all the aces and they are desperate to keep us in, no matter what, and therefore we should be able 'call the tune'. We can't because of those who just won't accept the democratic decision of our country!