O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

Yes but I've just explained people like me wouldn't have carried on bleating on about it and it's probable that Farage would have slowly disappeared and I wouldn't have supported his lack of democracy. As it happens, he is trying to uphold democracy which in this case I support.

So you can only take my word that I would have not supported undemocratic values but we know in your case that you do!!!

Yet you and others are feverishly supporting and trusting a man who is accusing others of doing exactly what he would have done?

I haven't supported a 2nd vote. I've always supported a compromise deal. But it seems that ain't good enough and only extremes are possible. ****ing great.

[WanChaiMiller]

Parachute payments for outgoing MEPs.The bill could be over two million pounds.What a slush fund!!!!

Not heard of this before. But great for Farage and his Brexit Party MEPs. Will they waive it?

[WanChaiMiller]

PMSL. Infighting already breaking out inside the EU headquarters after the EU elections Merkel and Macron having a little fallout.

Merkel wants fellow German (Another German eh!) Manfred Weber as the next EU Commission president but Macron does not want him even in the running. Click Link.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48431083

So EU leader role candidates get nominated and voted for by a democratically elected parliament.

[KerrAvon]

Remarkable how nobody outs Australia as a backward , insular country full of xenophobic little Australians .

The country only exists because of immigration and is a desirable location too .

They closed their open door policy years ago and replaced them with some very robust immigration controls .

They have problems don't get me wrong but seem to do alright .

I'm not sure why we are talking Australia (but it makes a change from Spanish fire engines), but the proportion of the Australian population that came to that country as immigrants is around twice that in the UK. The net immigration rate in Australia is also higher than that of the UK (as a percentage of the population).

As for problems with xenophobes, I’m sure that every country has one. On the face of it, Australia recently exported one of theirs to New Zealand.

[ragingpup]

If there were a General Election and the make up of the new Parliament was pro-Remain then, yes, Brexit could be stopped in that way.

The first issue is whether Parliament would support a vote of no confidence introduced by Corbyn, given that it is highly unlikely that the government would introduce a motion to call a GE.

Labour faces a problem in that the nature of their support is not uniform across the country – a Tory voter in Guildford would hold similar views to one in Gateshead (although the latter might be a bit lonely), whereas I suspect that the view from Labour supporters on Brexit would differ markedly between ‘traditional’ Labour in the North and the more outward looking and socially liberal party in London (note the difference in stance between you and animal on the subject). It is inconceivable that Labour could go into a GE without indicating their exact and detailed position on Brexit. Assuming that they followed the logic of the polling data and expressly adopted a Remain stance what that means is that Labour is likely to find suffer significant losses outside London.

In other words, I think Labour would think twice before attempting another vote of no confidence.

If there were a vote of no confidence, how would it go? The Tories know that they will be annihilated if they go into a GE without delivering Brexit, which would cause even the most Remain inclined Tory MP to think very carefully before voting against the government. It would be tantamount to an act of resignation (as it is, I think a couple of Tories will resign the whip if an ultra Hard Brexiteer takes the leadership). Remainer Tories would also have to weigh up the possible consequences of bringing the government down. They fear the economic damage that Brexit will cause, but they also fear that a Corbyn led government would cause substantial damage. The DUP would vote with the government both because they are hard Brexiteers and that they too would not want Corbyn near No. 10 given his and his top table’s support for the Republican cause.

The second issue is whether a new Parliament would hold a Remain majority. It is far from clear that would be the case.

The best opportunity for an orderly Brexit was May’s deal, but the moment for that has probably passed. What happens next will be influenced to a significant degree by who gets the Tory leadership. Johnson is not the right wing bogey man that some people seem to think. There are far more 'problematic' candidates in the running. The real problem though is that nobody is in control any more.

Thanks for the detailed response. To be honest, I was suggesting that a full government no confidence vote would likely come with strong support, if not initiated by the moderate tories that make no secret that no deal for them spells disaster, worse so than their fears of the last Labour manifesto economic ambitions?

I think it safe to assume that Labour will now fall behind a 2nd vote as compromise doesn't seem possible anymore. Expect this in the next week or two :-(

[Shark27]

Yet you and others are feverishly supporting and trusting a man who is accusing others of doing exactly what he would have done?

I haven't supported a 2nd vote. I've always supported a compromise deal. But it seems that ain't good enough and only extremes are possible. ****ing great.

If you find ME supporting a policy that doesn't uphold democracy then I will take your comments on board.

If you go on what has come out of the mouths of politicians then surely your labour membership should have been in the bin a while ago?

[ragingpup]

If you find ME supporting a policy that doesn't uphold democracy then I will take your comments on board.

If you go on what has come out of the mouths of politicians then surely your labour membership should have been in the bin a while ago?

Farage has built his whole policy around the idea of democratic outrage and masses are following him despite the fact that he is feigning outrage at something that he would do himself!

And people are lapping up his every hypocritical word. Must feel good.

[KerrAvon]

Thanks for the detailed response. To be honest, I was suggesting that a full government no confidence vote would likely come with strong support, if not initiated by the moderate tories that make no secret that no deal for them spells disaster, worse so than their fears of the last Labour manifesto economic ambitions?

I think it safe to assume that Labour will now fall behind a 2nd vote as compromise doesn't seem possible anymore. Expect this in the next week or two :-(

Only the official leader of the opposition (is that Len McCluskey or Jon Lansman... - only teasing) can move a vote of no confidence without the consent of the government business managers. Unless Bercow changes the rules.

How about a two part second referendum? On the first part of the paper, the voters are asked if they want to Leave or Remain. On the second part, which would only be looked at if Leave wins, the choice would be between the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal.

I think a second referendum is the wrong path for the reasons that I have explained previously, but at least such a process would bring the whole thing to an end - for now.

[Shark27]

Farage has built his whole policy around the idea of democratic outrage and masses are following him despite the fact that he is feigning outrage at something that he would do himself!

And people are lapping up his every hypocritical word. Must feel good.

I don't know which bit of my responses you don't understand?

I don't support any policies that are hypocritical.

[WanChaiMiller]

Where he was a pain in their sides fighting for the UK cause. He left mainstream politics as I am sure you know but choose to forget.

Yet he continued to chair of the Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy Group (the group for right wing populist parties in the EU Parliament).