O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[animallittle3]

Who are the experts that you think insist that there has been a huge change in areas such as Rotherham? i am agreeing with you that there is a big gap left over from the decimation of the former heartland industries, and that the people in those areas are angry about the relative economic downturn. I come from Ravenfield and my dad was a redundant steel worker who never recovered from his redundancy. I'm very familiar with the economic and cultural landscape of the heartland towns. I have Not sure who you mean by "we've always felt this way about globalisation"? Are you referring to the Tony Benn argument? In all my life of being brought up in South Yorkshire I can't recall one person saying that they were concerned about globalisation,in the way that Benn et all would argue. Or are you referring to immigration? It would be interesting to hear what Benn would think of the referendum and arguments put forward by vote leave, with the sometimes toxic anti immigration message. I can't believe he would side with vote leave as they became something very different to Labour values. I know he would object to ruthless employers exploiting the migrant worker, but im sure he'd be able to discern that this is but a small part of the freedom of movement issue. Depends on how much weight you place on this issue. But fundamentally, Labour will not go down the 'blame immigration' for our economic issues, quite simply as this isn't the cause of our economic issues. Leaving the EU won't make the slightest impact on ruthless employers exploiting migrants in my opinion. I think It's more like distraction to move us towards economic shock and exploitation of this by those who stand to gain from inevitable tax cuts/sale of assets in response.

You still struggle to see the EU for what they really are Raging , however that's understandable given the present day left , Labour Party , its membership , support groups and trade unions can't spot the elephant in the room either .

So does the Labour Party's values reconcile with the following .

A , Social EU legislation has never saved one job and it's directives are riddled with opt outs for employers to largely ignore any perceived benefits they may bring for workers , the rights won for UK workers were fought for and stood the test of time , holiday pay since 1938 , the 1948 factory act , the 1970 equal pay legislation and the minimum wage , not even the Tories can touch em given they need to win elections every five years and so they don't .

B , The EU have always travelled on the free trade train alongside free movement of capital , business austerity , flexible labour markets , low pay , privatisation of public services and the eradication of the welfare state .

C , The policies we see today were designed by free market fanatics , driven by unelected corporate lobbying and leading to Zero Hours contracts , agency working the norm which undermines collective bargaining and threatens secure employment , where were the agency industry and ZHC's before 1993 ? , there's a big clue for you there Raging and why we have the so called industries we see today , the Sports Directs , Amazons and ASOS couldn't operate in the way they do without the EU endorsing the corporate policies they are given to put in to law .

Wouldn't you welcome the opportunity to take the fight straight to Westminster where a government is challenged every 5 years rather than have the corporate EU's tentacles wrapped around the UK who will continue till the end of time to churn out the same big business bias , the Junkers will come and go but the narrative never will .

The values of the Labour Party indeed , the Labour Party and it's associates can't see the fecking wood for the trees .

[KerrAvon]

I love it when you Left Wingers talk ideology.

What year was the minimum wage introduced and who introduced it? You missed the year out.

I worked for agencies in 1984 and 1985 after I had left University. Both those years were before 1983 as I recall.

[Exiletyke]

I love it when you Left Wingers talk ideology.

What year was the minimum wage introduced and who introduced it? You missed the year out.

I worked for agencies in 1984 and 1985 after I had left University. Both those years were before 1983 as I recall.

What year was the minimum wage introduced and who introduced it? You missed the year out.[/quote]




Come on Kerr you must be dying to tell us

BTW there was not the countless agencies then as there are now

[KerrAvon]

Come on, Zyles. I know that you look up to animal with adoring eyes that a Springer Spaniel would stuggle to match, but you surely noticed his tactical ommision?

[Exiletyke]

Come on, Zyles. I know that you look up to animal with adoring eyes that a Springer Spaniel would stuggle to match, but you surely noticed his tactical ommision?

You obviously did so tell us all, don't be coy
& I've never stuggled in my life

[MillerBill]

The Irish prime minister still ignores the pleas from Irish business to negotiate a deal for the sake of the Irish people and not bow down to the devious EU.The backstop is a political football being used by Brussels and the longer it goes on, the businessmen across the EU especially in Germany and France are getting very unsettled.The fatcat EU beurocrats don't care about the people unfortunately.

[MillerBill]

I can never understand why it is classed as right wing to come out of the single market and customs union.The EU actually supports these huge multicorporations and they would be totally against Corbyn's view of total nationalisation.I suppose the remoamers will criticise anything that gives them that very slim chance of another referendum to try and change the result,just like the Irish were told to do,which was disgracefull.

[WanChaiMiller]

just like the Irish were told to do,which was disgracefull.

The Irish were not told to have another referendum. They voted down the first draft of the Lisbon Treaty and requested changes. The EU made those changes. The Irish government put the updated draft back to the people. The second draft was voted through with a 60% majority.

Explain what is wrong with that process?

[WanChaiMiller]

The Irish prime minister still ignores the pleas from Irish business to negotiate a deal for the sake of the Irish people and not bow down to the devious EU.The backstop is a political football being used by Brussels and the longer it goes on, the businessmen across the EU especially in Germany and France are getting very unsettled.The fatcat EU beurocrats don't care about the people unfortunately.

You've got this the wrong way round. Ireland see their future with the EU. The Irish people do not trust Britain and will not side with a country who has inflicted so much misery on them.

What deal are Irish Businesses asking Varadkar to make? Bear in the the Good Friday Agreement was made between the UK and ROI and has nothing to do with the EU.

[MillerBill]

That sinister woman, champagne socialist Emily Thornberry has spoken saying labour should stand as a remain party which will go down well in the London bubble but nowhere else.The horrible woman is trying to lead the party and Corbyn needs to put her in her place.