OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Just to clarify for those who think the MP's are acting honourably.

17.4 leave 16.1 leave

constituency

406 leave 242 remain

constituency by party
Labour 148 leave 84 Remain
Tories 247 leave 80 Remain

Regions
9 leave 3 remain

by MP's
160 leave 486 Remain

I think I can see the problem, but I am a right wing/nazi/xenophobic/racist/little Englander
So I could be wrong

The problem is nobody on the Brexit side said anything about leaving without a deal during the referendum - if your taken in by the machinations of far right venture capitalists who intend to screw this country and its citizens, then sadly you haven't the IQ required to even be given the vote. Remember all those "good" germans who voted for Hitler not actually understanding or perhaps caring what his end game was? Well thats you!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Avoiding a ‘no deal’ Brexit is not synonymous with Corbyn becoming PM, Geoff.
Throughout this debate you have veered to and fro between Remain and Leave, sometimes mischievously sometimes very astutely, but this time please let MoP answer first.
It’s his thread and he is one of the few Brexiteers on here who makes his point without rancour.

I was referencing Adi's post rA, but if thats how you feel I will withdraw from the discussion.

[AdiSalisbury]

I have never read such a load of piffle as your post! You have just described what brexit is all about, perhaps you need to understand reality? Blimey, Johnson lies, waffles and demonstrates an alarming lack of grasp what truth is, but you are a league above!

Ha! I bet the EU leaves a Euro under your pillow each time you loose a tooth too.

[AdiSalisbury]

I was referencing Adi's post rA, but if thats how you feel I will withdraw from the discussion.

It is a massive concern Geoff. I'm no Tory but I'd rather have a dry roasted peanut in charge than Corbyn, I'd even go so far as to vote Swale in just to keep Corbyn out

[Trickytreesreds]

The problem is nobody on the Brexit side said anything about leaving without a deal during the referendum - if your taken in by the machinations of far right venture capitalists who intend to screw this country and its citizens, then sadly you haven't the IQ required to even be given the vote. Remember all those "good" germans who voted for Hitler not actually understanding or perhaps caring what his end game was? Well thats you!

Wow, just wow.

Your arrogance at times, has no limits.
You insult everyone who has a different opinion to you. Your self righteous outlook on events, makes you believe you're a cut above eeryone else.
For every so called "expert" on remain. There is a counter argument expert for leave.

But SWALE knows better than everyone.
Perhaps you are one of those Brits who cheered and celebrated when Chamberlain waved his paper in the air, about his "deal", with our neighbours?
No action is better, peace in our time.

Of course, they had no idea of what their pacifism had just started, but hey ho that's YOU!

[Manofpride]

We disagree over Brexit MoP, but we’ve never been disrespectful to each other so I’ll respond respectfully.

‘Why would anyone vote again, just let the Government decide?’ I think that’s what Johnson and Rees-Mogg wanted but substitute ‘Government’ for Parliament and that’s the system of governance our society lives by isn’t it...Parliamentary Democracy.

I obviously don’t think it will ‘all go tits up’ if we remain but we’re still a long way from that...given the changing circumstances though there are two questions you might want to try and answer.
1. Why does the £ always rise as a hard Brexit becomes less likely and fall when Johnson, Cummings and ‘no deal’ appear in the ascendency e.g. the whole of the summer?
2. Why have Leavers remained so adamantly opposed to a second referendum? That was surely the way forward...a better informed public debate leading to a binding second referendum...but Leavers wouldn’t hear of it.

RA, my opinion is that the £ falls due to further Brexit uncertainty and I still believe that if we were to leave the £ would get a lot stronger.
I'm opposed to a second referendum because it could lead to a result I don't want, like you want a referendum to change the
result you didn't get! Having a second referendum would finish the voting system as we know it! and I for one wouldn't vote again.
There are winners and losers in everything, accept the result and move forward.
You can't go to the bookies and ask for the race to start again because your horse came 2nd.

[MadAmster]

Since Boris lost the 2 votes the £ has gone from below 1.10 against the Euro to 1.11 and from below 1.20 to 1.22 against the dollar.

[ramAnag]

RA, my opinion is that the £ falls due to further Brexit uncertainty and I still believe that if we were to leave the £ would get a lot stronger.
I'm opposed to a second referendum because it could lead to a result I don't want, like you want a referendum to change the
result you didn't get! Having a second referendum would finish the voting system as we know it! and I for one wouldn't vote again.
There are winners and losers in everything, accept the result and move forward.
You can't go to the bookies and ask for the race to start again because your horse came 2nd.

Thanks MoP...appreciate your honesty.
There though I’m afraid we have it...you don’t want a second referendum because you fear defeat.

Of course you’re right...I would accept one for quite the opposite reason, but I also want one because I think we are on the verge of a great act of national self harm, I believe the ‘people’ were chronically misled by those who are now running the country, I believe we are now much better informed and, at a time when ‘democracy’ is probably the most abused word in the country, a referendum would seem to offer the most genuinely ‘democratic’ solution.

As for your race/bookies analogy...you can indeed ask for the race to be re-run - or at least the winner to be stripped of his status - if it is proved that that the race was fixed or cheating took place.

On the subject of the £ - crucial to a country that imports more than it exports - I’m sure the uncertainty doesn’t help but the fact is...each time a ‘no deal/hard’, ERG designed Brexit gets closer the £ falls...correspondingly, each time it gets further away the £ strengthens. There’s a reason for that.

[ramAnag]

I was referencing Adi's post rA, but if thats how you feel I will withdraw from the discussion.

Apologies GP...I misunderstood and thought you were replying to me. No disrespect intended...there have effectively been two or three consistent Leavers on the forum throughout and I just wanted the view of the most consistent of them and the one who started the thread over 5300 posts ago.
MoP is, for me, the Farage of the forum - albeit an infinitely more likeable version. You I interpret as being more of a Philip Hammond or Rory Stewart...again no offence intended.

More seriously...I do think there is a real danger of confusing a desire to avoid Corbyn as PM with a need to accept Brexit.
I much prefer Corbyn to a Johnson/Cummings administration but I don’t want either as national leaders.
The only important thing, imo, is to avoid a ‘no deal’ Brexit...Corbyn is just a convenient smokescreen and an election is not the answer because opinions on Brexit do not entirely follow Party lines.

[MadAmster]

Here's a picture of Farage's NHS bus. Have a good look at it.



Where does it say ALL of the £350M a week would go to the NHS? People have read that into it. It was probably intended to be read that way in the way that all advertising purposely confuses.

Top line is partially factual. The UK's gross payment for 2018 was £17Bn which works out at £326.9M a week. The 350 wasn't far out. What it doesn't tell us is that we get a £4Bn rebate on that. We also get around £4Bn more in grants and subsidies from the EU meaning the net contribution is £9Bn a year or £173M a week. Not exactly a lie but most definitely the whole truth.

The 2nd line reads Let's fund our NHS instead. That doesn't say that the idea is to plough the entire EU payment into the NHS. You can give extra funding to the NHS and use some of the EU monies for other stuff. I admit, they wanted people to believe that they were saying all that cash would go to the NHS and many bought it.