O/T Democracy

[WanChaiMiller]

Is that your best response to the man who until recently ran the Port of Dover?

He contradicts himself in the piece. You need to listen to it properly.

He says there will be no changes at all to our trading arrangement. Yet in the very same phone in says there will be 150 new customs stations away from the port to deal with the extra work on the UK side.

There is no mention of what happens on the French side coming here.

If there ars no changes what so ever, why do we need 150 new customs stations? I'll answer that. Because there will be huge changes.

[Silly-miller]

People and politics throughly confuse me, I was talking to my brothers next door neighbour other day and even though he voted for brexit hates how any talk of a second referendum when it comes to a general election he would still vote labour and when I asked why? He simply said well it’s about time we had a labour government and we got to keep the Tory’s out. I said why not vote for brexit party “oh well it will be letting Tory’s in if I did that and labour is for working class” I was like oh my god do you honestly think Emily thornbry tom Watson and Hilary Ben is working class?

For a guy so keen on brexit like him I was completely gobsmacked how brainwashed people are and not only is the whole thing pulling the country apart it’s pulling peoples brains apart.

[great_fire]

People and politics throughly confuse me, I was talking to my brothers next door neighbour other day and even though he voted for brexit hates how any talk of a second referendum when it comes to a general election he would still vote labour and when I asked why? He simply said well it’s about time we had a labour government and we got to keep the Tory’s out. I said why not vote for brexit party “oh well it will be letting Tory’s in if I did that and labour is for working class” I was like oh my god do you honestly think Emily thornbry tom Watson and Hilary Ben is working class?

For a guy so keen on brexit like him I was completely gobsmacked how brainwashed people are and not only is the whole thing pulling the country apart it’s pulling peoples brains apart.

Even that woman who Gordon Brown called a "bigot" during an election campaign still voted Labour in the election!

Some people will vote Labour no matter what, because their parents and grandparents did, even though it's not the same party anymore and not longer represents their interests. They're just voting for the name, the red rosette. They have their equivalents in the South who always vote Tory.

[Silly-miller]

Even that woman who Gordon Brown called a "bigot" during an election campaign still voted Labour in the election!

Some people will vote Labour no matter what, because their parents and grandparents did, even though it's not the same party anymore and not longer represents their interests. They're just voting for the name, the red rosette. They have their equivalents in the South who always vote Tory.

Thing is I could understand if they agreed with their policy’s but when you talk to some people it’s like they have a loyalty card that gets stamped in every election and if you get a full book you get pissed on a little less. What’s the point in voting if same party always gets in? What incentive is there for labour to give a crap about South Yorkshire when they are guaranteed them seats?

My grandad was the wisest man i every met he once said “if they put a red rosette on a donkey it would still get in”

He’s not wrong

[great_fire]

Thing is I could understand if they agreed with their policy’s but when you talk to some people it’s like they have a loyalty card that gets stamped in every election and if you get a full book you get pissed on a little less. What’s the point in voting if same party always gets in? What incentive is there for labour to give a crap about South Yorkshire when they are guaranteed them seats?

My grandad was the wisest man i every met he once said “if they put a red rosette on a donkey it would still get in”

He’s not wrong

Most of the South Yorkshire seats outside of Sheffield voted around 70% for Brexit so the Brexit Party probably has the best chance of winning those seats for decades.

[BigLadonOS]

He contradicts himself in the piece. You need to listen to it properly.

He says there will be no changes at all to our trading arrangement. Yet in the very same phone in says there will be 150 new customs stations away from the port to deal with the extra work on the UK side.

There is no mention of what happens on the French side coming here.

If there ars no changes what so ever, why do we need 150 new customs stations? I'll answer that. Because there will be huge changes.

You have got to be the most dim witted person on the planet with the remarks above by saying he contradicts himself when in reality he does no such thing. You say that we should listen to it properly but fail to listen to it properly yourself.

I have come to the conclusion that you really do think you are smarter than you actually are and that digging ever deeper holes to fall in is something you are totally oblivious to.

[Exiletyke]

Even that woman who Gordon Brown called a "bigot" during an election campaign still voted Labour in the election!

Some people will vote Labour no matter what, because their parents and grandparents did, even though it's not the same party anymore and not longer represents their interests. They're just voting for the name, the red rosette. They have their equivalents in the South who always vote Tory.

I think you ought to read this gf

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/go...jeremy-corbyn/

[MillerBill]

Blair,Brown,Major and now Cameron,all very bad leaders of our country are banding together to try to derail the EU exit.Despreate people who seem to get a lot of media coverage to spout their propaganda.A total disgrace by this ragbag of ex politicians to ignore democracy.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Blair,Brown,Major and now Cameron

They have one thing in common, they all put themselves and their interests first, the voters came a very poor second.

Same now, Remainers aren't interested in the EU or democracy, they are just trying to protect their own money and interests.

Gina Miller is a fine example of it.

[ragingpup]

Raging have a read at the link I've provided and let me know your thoughts .


http://www.economistsforfreetrade.co...d-immigration/

Sorry for the delay animal. Just read this with interest. On the surface the sums presented seem to indicate a convincing argument but as I’m no expert on this it is hard for me to test the data that they (E4FT) present. If I am to give them benefit of the doubt that their sums hold at least some truth, then we could square that circle with the FF article I linked to you which did summarise that “low-wage workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain” but stressed that overall, the negative difference was “small” and “For both wages and employment, short run effects of immigration differ from long run effects: any declines in the wages and employment of UK-born workers in the short run can be offset by rising wages and employment in the long run.”.

It's a highly complicated discussion and whilst I am willing to look at the E4FT argument, as an average Joe, I am sceptical of their data as they have such a strong bias towards a No Deal Brexit for their own ends, and have been repeatedly taken down more impartial commentators for skewing statistics to favour their arguments. This FT report on the E4FT report for one: https://www.ft.com/content/9bddba54-...c-25c814761640

I’m all for looking at ways to minimise the impact of immigration, and anything, that has a negative impact on wage and employment standards. In principle I’ve no objection to a ‘green card’ type system, as long as it goes hand in hand with a national policy to build skills and increase wages within capacities that low skilled employers can maintain (i.e. a sizable economic remodelling – if this doesn’t happen, and you just introduce green cards after No Deal, who is going to do the jobs? If wages need improving, how is the employer going to pay for it as most operate on small profit margins already). But as I’ve said, I honestly don’t think that economists like Minford are arguing to enhance the living standards of the average worker: I think the FT article reveals their (and their wealthy sponsors) true motivations, in making the UK a deregulated sweatshop, importing low quality goods at zero tariffs to undercut any UK companies that do uphold employment/consumer/environmental standards.

So I can see some valid arguments in the article but I trust not the authors to skew data for their own ends and exploit either the lay person’s ability to counter I’m more convinced that The Migration Observatory, as an entity offer more impartial perspectives but I understand you may not agree.