Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
This is all well and good but is anyone on here suggesting pure socialism or economic systems along the lines of East Germany and Venezuela?

Personally, as I've always said, I'm all for Denmark style social democracy - a heavy state presence with all paying in higher taxes progressively for better quality public services and less focus on cut throat capitalism 80 for 2 litres of milk etc.

Sorry but the constant references to Venezuela and East Germany just sounds like scare mongering to keep things exactly as they are. I take your point about Labour looking at securing the workforce a % stake in company profits and whilst there is vagueness about what extent goes to the state if it is set up to encourage worker productivity, then I think it's worth putting options such as this forward to address low productivity.

I'm interested if other lefties on here would be looking beyond social democracies, into more pure state ownership models? Is anyone suggesting that? If they aren't, constant referral to Venezuela etc doesn't seem very relevant? Corbyn may well have wished them well in their revolution days, looked at that people's revolution under Chevez as inspirational but their economic circumstances are so specific they don't bear any relation to where we are, nor where we would like to head. Makes a good scare story to keep our current economic model exactly as it is though, if you feel that the current one is working for you and the world you see around you.
These people used to mention Venezuela:

Jeremy Corbyn 2012 – Here you had the contrast between capitalism in crisis and socialism in action.

Jeremy Corbyn 2013 – In Chavez let’s remember someone who stood up, was counted, was inspiring, is inspiring, and in his death we will march on to that better, just, peaceful and hopeful world.

John McDonnell 2014 – Here you had the contrast between capitalism in crisis and socialism in action. (he got that right)

Diane Abbott 2012 – I think the importance of Venezuela is it shows another way is possible. Obviously it’s got oil wealth which makes a difference, but nonetheless, they’ve sought to invest in the country and they’ve sought to continue to fight poverty.

In fairness to McDonnell, by 2018 he had decided that Venezuela wasn’t really a Socialist state…

I don’t think Corbyn and his crew want to create a Venezuela in the UK. I simply think that they, like many politicians, have so much faith in their own abilities and so much faith in Socialism that they will be believe that they can be the first government anywhere to make a success out of the ideology, with oh so predictable results.

Labour looking at securing the workforce a % stake in company profits? Cobblers. It’s a part privatisation and tax grab and you know it.