O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

My own response is it DOES make sense to offer some relief for the most important family get together of the year, my own opinion is it should have been shorter - travel/stay Christmas Eve, stay Christmas Day, return travel Boxing Day, but that's just one of a million opinions. BUT there are problems with ANY decision, including allowing no alleviation at all - some folk will assess the offering and treat it as a MAXIMUM (yourself included) and either scale down or cancel, and at the other end of the scale there are folk who will jolly up to the max and beyond - its human nature. To my mind it makes no difference now, there isn't a non-vax solution which doesn't result in mutually assured destruction, either of our wealth or health. IMO the absolute maximum effort should be applied to the acquisition of the vaccine and its provision to the population in the order already determined. The whole of the free world is failing to be disciplined enough to control things despite now having two pops at it, the vaccine gives everyone offered it peace of mind - that they have either taken on immunity or are happy to run the gauntlet

Okay, straight answer, but I’m sorry, I disagree.
Three households over five days equates to the potential for huge and protracted family gatherings and a huge amount of unnecessary travel. At this particular time we (society and the NHS) cannot afford the likely consequences of that and it is the primary job of Government to keep us safe.
Potentially this is going to make a negative difference and it is going to be a long time before the vaccine is available in sufficient quantities for sufficient people to have the protection which you and I both agree now requires the maximum effort and appears to be the only way ‘out’.

[Andy_Faber]

Okay, straight answer, but I’m sorry, I disagree.
Three households over five days equates to the potential for huge and protracted family gatherings and a huge amount of unnecessary travel. At this particular time we (society and the NHS) cannot afford the likely consequences of that and it is the primary job of Government to keep us safe.
Potentially this is going to make a negative difference and it is going to be a long time before the vaccine is available in sufficient quantities for sufficient people to have the protection which you and I both agree now requires the maximum effort and appears to be the only way ‘out’.

Nice to see at least a bit of agreement round here

Not sure if people have twigged the absolutely miniscule impact the vaccine will have on the key indicators in the early days. its 28 days before folk who might have caught it don't, and another (lets say) 28 days before the patient doesn''t die from infection, thus reducing the death number. But that's also on a TINY proportion of the population, and I see this as being a big balls ache for HMG if they don't sell it right. IMO they need to drill into the public the improvements in outcomes for the sections of the population they are actually vaxing. And, thank God and the good sense of the profession, my pal Morg tells me that of his rather large cohort of nursing friends not a single one (who is able to take it) is going to refuse their turn on the chair of destiny. Good start

[swaledale]

"Its not a bloody competition" says the man who turns every governmental decision into a points winning competition between government and himself!!

Think on this over xmas - the people who drive these decisions that impact all our lives are not politicians, they are hard working civil servants and health experts plus no doubt many more who formulate the basic policy for Johnson, Gove etc to spout. Its these guys who have the data the skills and the knowledge to put forward solutions. The ****tish Old Etonian simply reads what he is given

Ah you have such a simple belief, I rather fear that with Johnson he doesn't read what he has been given and actually ignores the sound advice and makes up something that he thinks people will like. At least if one reviews the many u turns, vague promises, world beating and it will be over by Xmas that characterise his utterings, then thats what one would glean.

Anyway civil servants don't make up policy they implement the policy which the government and its many advisers cook up. Thats rather the point of government! Of course civil servants can ameliorate the more foolish policies, which is why Cummins (one of these advisers) was rather keen to get rid of those he didn't like.

You only have to see Whitty grimacing when Johnson's speaking to realise that the medical experts advice is only taken on board as far as it suits the government!

[Ram59]

You only have to see Whitty grimacing when Johnson's speaking to realise that the medical experts advice is only taken on board as far as it suits the government![/QUOTE]


Trouble is, individual medical, scientific, business, social, educational, etc, etc, advisors are only concerned with their own field, the government are trying to work out the best plan of action for long term, short term, medium term and for all groups, a near impossible task.

I'm not pretending that they haven't made mistakes, they've made plenty, both obvious ones and ones we may have agreed with at the time. You could compare the government's handling of the crisis with MM's running of Derby County.

[swaledale]

You only have to see Whitty grimacing when Johnson's speaking to realise that the medical experts advice is only taken on board as far as it suits the government!

Trouble is, individual medical, scientific, business, social, educational, etc, etc, advisors are only concerned with their own field, the government are trying to work out the best plan of action for long term, short term, medium term and for all groups, a near impossible task.

I'm not pretending that they haven't made mistakes, they've made plenty, both obvious ones and ones we may have agreed with at the time. You could compare the government's handling of the crisis with MM's running of Derby County.[/QUOTE]

Don't disagree its a difficult task, BUT real leaders cope in difficult unforeseen circumstances, Johnson is clearly not a real leader, hates making difficult decisions, hates being unpopular, doesn't do detail and has been behind the curve on every occasion, thats not to mention appointing people wholly unqualified to run operations (other than they are a member of the inner circle) or spaffing millions of pounds on contracts to organisations with no track record of delivering whats required.

If people give him and this government of cronies, no talent and sycophants the benfit of the doubt then frankly they clearly aren't able to understand facts!

[ramAnag]

Trouble is, individual medical, scientific, business, social, educational, etc, etc, advisors are only concerned with their own field, the government are trying to work out the best plan of action for long term, short term, medium term and for all groups, a near impossible task.

I'm not pretending that they haven't made mistakes, they've made plenty, both obvious ones and ones we may have agreed with at the time. You could compare the government's handling of the crisis with MM's running of Derby County.

Don't disagree its a difficult task, BUT real leaders cope in difficult unforeseen circumstances, Johnson is clearly not a real leader, hates making difficult decisions, hates being unpopular, doesn't do detail and has been behind the curve on every occasion, thats not to mention appointing people wholly unqualified to run operations (other than they are a member of the inner circle) or spaffing millions of pounds on contracts to organisations with no track record of delivering whats required.

If people give him and this government of cronies, no talent and sycophants the benfit of the doubt then frankly they clearly aren't able to understand facts![/QUOTE]

Can only 100% agree with that and if you want proof...look at this afternoon’s announcement.

He’s eventually seen sense but, ‘Mr. Leave it to the last minute’, has made the right decision at completely the wrong time.
Weeks and weeks ago the Government said everyone should get used to the idea of an ‘on-line Christmas’. It made total sense.
Then, yet again, he/they did a ‘U’ turn for something more popular. He ridiculed Starmer as wanting to ‘cancel Christmas’ and now look at the mess we have.
The man is an incompetent buffoon and should be told to go, taking his disgrace of a cabinet with him.

[Andy_Faber]

Hands up who's spent ten minutes whinging and moaning on an internet forum and who's spent the same ten minutes reorganising their family's Christmas?

[Ram59]

Hands up who's spent ten minutes whinging and moaning on an internet forum and who's spent the same ten minutes reorganising their family's Christmas?

More like hands up, those who have spent days on the forum arguing how each other has interpreted each others posts.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just spent an hour doing remote control shopping from my office with my oldest who is in the darker areas of Borough Market in grossly infected London, and also rearranging the "festive" season. We now have cheese and chocolate! Now I can moan on a forum, but actually I won't because in all honesty it was coming, if not now, then on 1st January. Anyway I now have the perfect excuse for not getting xmas presents as I am always a last minute shopper

I do expect someone to start complaining about the decision, despite having advocated it these past few days.

[ramAnag]

Just spent an hour doing remote control shopping from my office with my oldest who is in the darker areas of Borough Market in grossly infected London, and also rearranging the "festive" season. We now have cheese and chocolate! Now I can moan on a forum, but actually I won't because in all honesty it was coming, if not now, then on 1st January. Anyway I now have the perfect excuse for not getting xmas presents as I am always a last minute shopper

I do expect someone to start complaining about the decision, despite having advocated it these past few days.

You should try reading back to post #416. There you are...done for you. Pleased to have lived up to expectation. It suggests a level of consistency that our PM is quite incapable of.
So go ahead...tell us all why my criticism is wrong and why he deserves even a modicum of respect for the way he’s handled things.