O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Geoff Parkstone]

I genuinely wonder how much you understand about political appointments rA. Ministers lead departments full of "experts in their fields" and act as mouthpieces for them. They set policy which is carried out by the support staff. It really isn't that crucial that they themselves are experts in the chosen field of their department. Ministers jump from role to role with every reshuffle. Policy re vaccinations is pretty simple: get it done quickly, safely etc. In crude terms, the minister does not need to be a logistics expert, just make sure the department have them.....

[Andy_Faber]

I’m not ‘keen to dampen enthusiasm’, Andy, but I think my point was...Nadim Zahawi has just been made the Minister in charge of Vaccinations.
Two years ago he was Minister for Children and Families...then he became Minister for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
It must be amazing to be an expert in such diverse areas. I know little about the man and I’m not going to criticise him...I just seriously hope he’s a hell of a lot better than many of his Cabinet colleagues and that he is aided by genuine experts in the areas of procurement and distribution and doesn’t have to rely on those who advised regarding ‘test and trace’.

Good for you (really) Ram...what are you likely to have to do? I’m assuming you’re not qualified to actually vaccinate folk.

I think I’m more doubtful about Zahawi than you are actually. It’s difficult warm to most of the current people in charge, or for that matter most of the opposition. The Tory class of 92, who quite rightly got booted out in 97, might have been a bunch of crooks but at least they gave an air of confidence that they knew their jobs when interviewed

Edit I concur with Geoff’s assessment, they are just mouthpieces, Shame some of them aren’t better ones

[Ram59]

Good for you (really) Ram...what are you likely to have to do? I’m assuming you’re not qualified to actually vaccinate folk.[/QUOTE]

There are a number of fields that you can help, including vaccinating folk, some you need to train for and/or need a recent DBS clearance, my check for being a school governor expired many years ago. Other fields, such as NHS transport volunteer, which I feel comfortable with, are simpler to fill.

It'll be interesting to see how efficiently the enrolment is handled and what tasks and how much time will be required of me. I'm back on shopping for 2 shielding households, unfortunately not the 3 from last year (RIP Abbi) and 2 days of childcare with my granddaughter, but otherwise, I have quite a few hours each week which could be put to good use over the next few months.

[ramAnag]

I genuinely wonder how much you understand about political appointments rA. Ministers lead departments full of "experts in their fields" and act as mouthpieces for them. They set policy which is carried out by the support staff. It really isn't that crucial that they themselves are experts in the chosen field of their department. Ministers jump from role to role with every reshuffle. Policy re vaccinations is pretty simple: get it done quickly, safely etc. In crude terms, the minister does not need to be a logistics expert, just make sure the department have them.....

I understand what you’re saying GP however is it not perhaps the case that maybe they should have more ‘expertise in the chosen field of their department’?
Perhaps, as was my point with Zahawi, we need to look for a better system than ministers who ‘jump from role to role with each reshuffle’...although I’ll readily concede that Gavin Williamson more than adequately demonstrates your point about lack of ‘expertise’...as, imo, I’ve never encountered such a dangerous and incompetent liability in any Cabinet...and that includes Patel, Abbott and the current PM.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well let's get out there and find an elected minister with past experience in mass immunisation then. I'll let you find the first one, and then I'll look for the second one! I've no time for the selected individual either, having encountered him in the business strategy environment. Gobsheit sums it up

[ramAnag]

Well let's get out there and find an elected minister with past experience in mass immunisation then. I'll let you find the first one, and then I'll look for the second one! I've no time for the selected individual either, having encountered him in the business strategy environment. Gobsheit sums it up

But that’s my point. Let’s hand the job over to the real experts and not create this pseudo position. We have a Health Secretary, a Home Secretary and a Prime Minister...surely they can be the ‘mouthpieces’ you insist is all they are.

In the first twenty years of the 21st Century there have been ten Ministers of Education (or equivalent). Only two, Charles Clarke (who I did meet as a student) and Michael Gove have managed two years or more. Just think if we did that with football managers. Oh hang on.

[Geoff Parkstone]

In the first twenty years of the 21st Century there have been ten Ministers of Education (or equivalent). Only two, Charles Clarke (who I did meet as a student) and Michael Gove have managed two years or more. Just think if we did that with football managers. Oh hang on.

Well if the education system cannot produce educators......

[swaledale]

But that’s my point. Let’s hand the job over to the real experts and not create this pseudo position. We have a Health Secretary, a Home Secretary and a Prime Minister...surely they can be the ‘mouthpieces’ you insist is all they are.

In the first twenty years of the 21st Century there have been ten Ministers of Education (or equivalent). Only two, Charles Clarke (who I did meet as a student) and Michael Gove have managed two years or more. Just think if we did that with football managers. Oh hang on.

Nobody expects a Minister or any CEO for that matter to ahve a detailed understanding of what happens at the coal face so to speak, however, what it is reasonable to expect is people with some integrity, able to demonstrate judgement have an understanding of their brief and be competent, rather than have as with Williamson for example somebody who is devoid of any competence, or as with the PM no integrity, no understanding of what the truth looks like etc etc.

After all it is true that there are experienced Civil servants and advisors who do the real work, but then one gets the attack on the Civil Service and those that can exit quickly, rather than putting up with that ****.

Of course part of this is because we now have career politicians rather than people who actually were professionals in some sector, I mean the only "job" that Johnson has done is journalist, and a pretty piss poor one at that, not because of his political views, but because basically he wrote utter lies and bull**** and of course got sacked when the lies caught up with him!

[Andy_Faber]

Great to see through East Midlands BBC News earlier that the Velodrome setup is running really smoothly and (I forget the exact words) they can scale up considerably. That was an actual 'doer' speaking so no spin, lets hope those who can step things up hear her and do so. Also encouraging to see the Army getting involved in logistics, Mrs F's cousin is in one of the logistics corps and said in the summer they were 'gagging for it' (involvement if necessary), they WERE the exact words.

[MadAmster]

Great to see through East Midlands BBC News earlier that the Velodrome setup is running really smoothly and (I forget the exact words) they can scale up considerably. That was an actual 'doer' speaking so no spin, lets hope those who can step things up hear her and do so. Also encouraging to see the Army getting involved in logistics, Mrs F's cousin is in one of the logistics corps and said in the summer they were 'gagging for it' (involvement if necessary), they WERE the exact words.

My thoughts too Andy. However, those nice conspeorist chappies and chapesses on (anti)-social media see the idea of the Army assisting as more proof of how it's all a huge control exercise and everybody will be "forced" to vaccinate......

Same "news", two totally different takes on it.