O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Trickytreesreds]

Andy: Havent you recognised the rA paradigm that you can sing anyone's praises unless it happens to be Team UK which you simply are allowed to castigate. Its a dark red vein running to his core. Its sad.

A job at the BBC would suit him. They have exactly the same mantra.

[Andy_Faber]

In disagreeing with the original ‘mantra’ and suggesting that we are all responsible for our own actions you implied, to me at least, that those who choose not to be vaccinated were at fault. I’m actually, partially at least, inclined to agree but that’s what makes them ‘hard to reach’ which was Swale’s first and my (later) point.

Getting the world to work together to defeat the pandemic is the key. There is nothing wrong with celebrating our success as far as the vaccination process is concerned. There is everything wrong with allowing, and even encouraging, politicians - of any country - and others to make claim and counterclaim based on nationalistic rivalry. That’s fine where sport is concerned but horribly unhelpful as far as defeating the pandemic is concerned.

You seem to have returned to ‘I was just joshing’ mode as regards the protection offered via us being an ‘island nation’ Your original comment seemed serious enough however you really can’t compare the UK (population per sq km 275) with NZ (population per sq km 18).

P.S. That ‘contribution’ is complete bollux GP which you have absolutely no evidence for.

No, I just disagree with the mantra. And its unattainable. UK will end up with a percentage of unvacced folk, maybe 2%. France may end up with who knows, 20%? 30%? Other countries will have a mix. And then there's the inevitable falloff of takeup on second and booster doses amongst the already reluctant and forgetful/deliberately avoiding/Brexit supporting (yes thats a joke at Swale's expense) folk. And the millions of illegals who you may think you never come across but I'll guarantee are only two or three degrees of seperation from you. So, the mantra IMO is a waste of breath. your individual safety is in your own hands. To me, the mass vaccination is essential because the world has decided it's more ethical to give folk a chance than to just let it roll and and dig a lot of very deep holes. Ironically the pointy heads (in UK at least) were essentially proposing that method in the early days until some intern in whitehall did the extrapolated death number and passed it to a minister

[ramAnag]

I take your point...ultimately we won’t ever manage to vaccinate 100% of any population as there will always be some who fall through the net, either for reasons connected with other health concerns, mistrust of the vaccine, or simply because they are ‘off the grid’.

That isn’t really the point though...the aim has to be to maximise the number vaccinated and not just in the West but across the whole World.

[Andy_Faber]

So we are back to agreeing. But tell me what alternative use you would have put our 30 million vaccination doses to, I don't mean idealistically, I mean actually, December 2020 to now. Remember there are no 'extra' vaccines around

[Geoff Parkstone]

I have nearly 100 posts on this thread and over 7000 on the Brexit thread where you have consistently adopted a one eyed a to UK government stance. Pick any one of those as evidence

[ramAnag]

Well done you...I never realised that being critical of the Government equated to being critical of the UK and I’d be astonished if your figures are correct for the Brexit thread but again...being critical of Brexit, the Tory Party or the Government is not the same as being critical of the UK or whatever ‘Team UK’ is meant to mean.

Happily put my hand up to being critical of Williamson, Patel, Gove and Johnson etc...but largely because I want something better than incompetents and liars to run the UK.

Wouldn’t say we ‘agree’, Andy. I’ve just accepted that universal vaccination in it’s most literal form is too idealistic. The aim remains for as many as possible to be vaccinated across the World as soon as possible which will include accessing or persuading those described as ‘difficult to reach’.

[swaledale]

Andy: Havent you recognised the rA paradigm that you can sing anyone's praises unless it happens to be Team UK which you simply are allowed to castigate. Its a dark red vein running to his core. Its sad.

So rA disagrees with nationalistic sentiments and thats translated into being anti UK? How do you work that out?

THE Eu ****ed up procurement, the individual Eu countries together with some of their politicians have ****ed up the vaccination programmes which they and not the EU are responsible for, some of the political mischief making has been scandalous. The implications for their own citizens is dire, but as rA points out quite rightly its not good news for the Uk that European countries are making such a mess of this.

The Uk, whether that be in vaccine design and manufacture, procurement or vaccination has excelled its self. Neither rA or myself have castigated the Uk effort re the vaccine. Its no coincidence that the vaccine and associated programme of vaccinations is not the result of some government plan thought up by politicians and their SPADS and outsourced to the private sector. But has been left the those people and organisations with the relevant expertise and with the government providing the necessary funds. Its an example of what can happen when there is collaboration between the private and public sectors and government sets out the desired outcomes, provides the funds and allows those with the expertise to get on with it.

Whats happened in europe is a prime of example of what was happening in the Uk pre vaccine, political interference rather than political facilitation.

So yes Johnson's government have got something right, by leaving it to those who know what they are doing to get on with it, finally listening to the science!

It's wrong to say the success is purely a UK achievement, Astra Zenica are an Anglo Swedish firm after all and looking across the Atlantic, it seems the USA is also doing pretty well, though Canada for some reason has ****ed up.

[swaledale]

No, I just disagree with the mantra. And its unattainable. UK will end up with a percentage of unvacced folk, maybe 2%. France may end up with who knows, 20%? 30%? Other countries will have a mix. And then there's the inevitable falloff of takeup on second and booster doses amongst the already reluctant and forgetful/deliberately avoiding/Brexit supporting (yes thats a joke at Swale's expense) folk. And the millions of illegals who you may think you never come across but I'll guarantee are only two or three degrees of seperation from you. So, the mantra IMO is a waste of breath. your individual safety is in your own hands. To me, the mass vaccination is essential because the world has decided it's more ethical to give folk a chance than to just let it roll and and dig a lot of very deep holes. Ironically the pointy heads (in UK at least) were essentially proposing that method in the early days until some intern in whitehall did the extrapolated death number and passed it to a minister

That still does not explain your incredulous "hard to reach we are not on Mars!" comment! And the individual safety being in your own hands is simplistic and shows a deep lack of understanding. As per usual you have failed to acknowledge I might have a point, when I said that efforts can not only be concentrated on those that can or will accept the vaccine, parallel work to get to those unwilling or unable is crucial and necessary.

Not sure why Brexit supporting is a joke at my expense - after all the only reference I made was to some older people wanting the "British" vaccine (which is not exclusively British in any event) and the idea that someone would delay having a vaccine on the basis of where its made - when I very much doubt they worry about where their other medicines come from and they can't know where the batch of the "British" AZ vaccine was made is utterly ludicrous.

As ironic in fact as Brexit and other nationalists fervent support for a "British" Royal family, when they Queen is german and her consort greek, its no more a "British" royal family than the Mini is a "British" car, its european. Ah but then i seem to recall that led to you completely missing the point and venting your spleen on my supposedly xenophobic comments! Ooops you looked a little stupid there - look up the definition of xenophobic and you might understand.

Oh you truly are the comedy gift that keeps on coming.

[MadAmster]

In the interests of balance, rA has, quite rightly so IMO, lambasted the government for everything that has gone wrong in this saga.

He has also given them plaudits for the two things they got right, getting the finacial package in place/tweaking it in the face of changing circumstances and the vaccination process.

I fail to see how rA getting the balance right can be slated as much as it is.

[Andy_Faber]

In the interests of balance, rA has, quite rightly so IMO, lambasted the government for everything that has gone wrong in this saga.

He has also given them plaudits for the two things they got right, getting the finacial package in place/tweaking it in the face of changing circumstances and the vaccination process.

I fail to see how rA getting the balance right can be slated as much as it is.

There's few enough of us involved here that any slating appears in higher relief than it should, hopefully rA sees my interaction as not slating, I tend to reserve that for Swale