Taking the Knee

[applepie2]

The thing that I find quite disturbing is that anyone on NCM who dares to think that, taking the knee is not the way forward in solving racism, is instantly seen as a racist. Much like anyone voting for Brexit was racist. It also seems to come from the supposedly better educated, (arrogant/patronising) people.
Just my opinion, other opinions are allowed as well.

You may have a point there. On the other hand, to me, a much bigger point is that black people are much more likely to be on the receiving end of violence, including violence from police, and many other injustices. But as soon as they make a protest that’s in the news, they are howled down for doing so. How dare they point out the reality of racism and injustice?

[drillerpie]

It never got traction? You've gotta be kidding??!?!?!

As Swale mentioned it was huge worldwide news at the time thanks mainly to the POTUS sensationalist comments back in 2016/17, such as suggesting "he should find himself a new country" or words to that effect following his kneeling during an anthem. It was all over UK news.

In fact the 45th President of the United States has been very vocal about his criticism of Kaepernick and the gesture making headlines across the world until just last year.

I don't know where you and Swale were in 2016 or how you are defining 'worldwide', but as I said before it barely, if at all, registered in the country I was living in at the time.

It didn't get any traction in the UK in 2016 - I completely stand by that statement. No sports people were kneeling down and if you had asked a random selection of people in 2016 if they were in favour of taking the knee they would probably have looked at you with a puzzled expression.

Contrast that with the situation post BLM protests - people taking a knee at protests which were the top story on the news, Lewis Hamilton taking a knee at the Formula 1 with a BLM t-shirt on, footballers doing it before every match, etc etc.

[applepie2]

What is “the way forward in solving racism”?

[TheBlackHorse]

... Swale ... where is the post I submitted?

[SwalePie]

The thing that I find quite disturbing is that anyone on NCM who dares to think that, taking the knee is not the way forward in solving racism, is instantly seen as a racist. Much like anyone voting for Brexit was racist. It also seems to come from the supposedly better educated, (arrogant/patronising) people.
Just my opinion, other opinions are allowed as well.

It is often portrayed in that simplistic fashion, but as you point out, it really isn't that clear cut at all. It is certainly a complex issue.

[SwalePie]

... Swale ... where is the post I submitted?

I have only the same view of the threads as you do. Perhaps you didn't submit it?

ETA: I think your last post on this thread was 7.35am following a quick scan through. (post #52)

[crazyfists]

You may have a point there. On the other hand, to me, a much bigger point is that black people are much more likely to be on the receiving end of violence, including violence from police, and many other injustices. But as soon as they make a protest that’s in the news, they are howled down for doing so. How dare they point out the reality of racism and injustice?

I agree with this as what's wrong with highlighting racism, it takes 10 seconds and keeps it in the public arena. For example the abuse the England penalty takers who missed received was disgusting, why wouldn't players want to show they aren't happy it's still going on far too much. If people don't agree with it then that's upto them, I just don't think being quiet for 10 seconds instead of booing it is that bad an option.

[laddo]

I don't know where you and Swale were in 2016 or how you are defining 'worldwide', but as I said before it barely, if at all, registered in the country I was living in at the time.

It didn't get any traction in the UK in 2016 - I completely stand by that statement. No sports people were kneeling down and if you had asked a random selection of people in 2016 if they were in favour of taking the knee they would probably have looked at you with a puzzled expression.

Contrast that with the situation post BLM protests - people taking a knee at protests which were the top story on the news, Lewis Hamilton taking a knee at the Formula 1 with a BLM t-shirt on, footballers doing it before every match, etc etc.

Yes it's evolved hugely I don't see anyone denying that. Maybe it got no traction in your world but it was worldwide news 5 years ago.

Why because the most talked about, outspoken, controversial and news making person on the planet during that time and since , Donald J Trump,was very vocal about it with plenty of head shaking embarrassing sound bites. It couldn't fail to be worldwide news.

In this country it was all over the BBC, ITV, Sky News in 2016 and 2017 thanks to Donald.

These sort of thread are usually your forte, you excel, but it I'm afraid your memory has let you down on this occasion.

[drillerpie]

Yes it's evolved hugely I don't see anyone denying that. Maybe it got no traction in your world but it was worldwide news 5 years ago.

Why because the most talked about, outspoken, controversial and news making person on the planet during that time and since , Donald J Trump,was very vocal about it with plenty of head shaking embarrassing sound bites. It couldn't fail to be worldwide news.

In this country it was all over the BBC, ITV, Sky News in 2016 and 2017 thanks to Donald.

These sort of thread are usually your forte, you excel, but it I'm afraid your memory has let you down on this occasion.

I'll skip over the passive aggressive dig at the end and just reassure you that my memory is fine, thanks.

As I said before I don't know how you are defining worldwide - maybe you're thinking in terms of English-speaking world, or UK-US world (if that's a thing) but it certainly wasn't big news where I was living in 2016. The protests around last spring/summer on the other hand, most definitely were.

Apart from that I don't really see what we're debating. I say it went mainstream with BLM, you say it 'evolved hugely'.

My general point, which I wouldn't mind getting back to, was to say that how people perceive taking the knee probably has more to do with how they became aware of it, and what they associate it with because of that, rather than how it originally started.

[SwalePie]

Definitely not a dig drillerpie but you may find this old Grauniad piece interesting in relation to the Trump/Kaepernick hoohah in the US.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/22/donald-trump-nfl-national-anthem-protests

ETA: Having re-read it, I'm also shudderingly reminded of the former President's crass lack of understanding of the world around him, so that was a bonus