OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure Brexit and ‘minority exposure’ are actually comparable

Not sure if you’re aware how often you pull the ‘not sure they’re comparable’ card, but it’s a lot, I think I’m going to give it a try when I can’t or can’t be bothered to offer a credible response

[Geoff Parkstone]

Tackling those in reverse order

I’m struggling to think of any other change - major or more minor - that you’d allow five years before you judged it. One that springs to mind was in 1972 when we joined the EU in the first place. Major incidents such as these take time to settle.

I’m not sure Zoom is an ‘effective substitute’ Its an imperfect solution, but if we are serious about tackling climate change, its one we will need to adopt - amongst a raft of other serious measures to curtail the pissing of fossil fuels into the air

Up here we have four bins. One (food waste) emptied weekly and the other three emptied every other week down here we have 5, inc garden waste. No difference in efficiency of collection seen yet.

given is a shortage of HGV drivers - originally blamed on Covid but more recently (whisper it to Andy) as a result of Brexit. I think what you mean to say here is "more recently (whisper it to Andy) blamed on Brexit", since you cannot know that your council is telling the truth or merely finding a convenient excuse for their own inadequacy.

Same as we weren’t taken in by Farage’s refugee ‘advert’. same as I wasn't by remainer scaremongers about death, destruction, famine. Both sides of the debate were guilty of fabrication and b/s: dont just pick on the failings of the side you didnt like . The whole campaign from both sides was disgraceful.

Can we really afford that? whether we can or whether we cant, that's what we need to deal with and give it time. We cannot change it, so let it play out. You dont change your entire forward line after 7 minutes just because you are worried you might lose the game.

[ramAnag]

Not sure if you’re aware how often you pull the ‘not sure they’re comparable’ card, but it’s a lot, I think I’m going to give it a try when I can’t or can’t be bothered to offer a credible response

Fair enough...it was my polite way of saying, ‘I’m ‘kin sure they’re not’, but have it your way. What it meant was...how can you compare the most seismic event in British politics for half a century with your slightly odd obsession. Better?

[Andy_Faber]

given is a shortage of HGV drivers - originally blamed on Covid but more recently (whisper it to Andy) as a result of Brexit. I think what you mean to say here is "more recently (whisper it to Andy) blamed on Brexit", since you cannot know that your council is telling the truth or merely finding a convenient excuse for their own inadequacy.

In fact the shortage was blamed, by the Council, without any weighting, on four things - Brexit, Covid illness, Covid self isolation, delays in HGV testing and an intimated fifth, low pay, and sixth, the Council's unpreparedness to pull the contractual trigger and dump Serco, because they hadn't risk assessed their plan B, and a seventh I can only claim by anecdote, that Serco aren't managing their problems as well as at least one of their competitors, Biffa

[ramAnag]

In fact the shortage was blamed, by the Council, without any weighting, on four things - Brexit, Covid illness, Covid self isolation, delays in HGV testing and an intimated fifth, low pay, and sixth, the Council's unpreparedness to pull the contractual trigger and dump Serco, because they hadn't risk assessed their plan B, and a seventh I can only claim by anecdote, that Serco aren't managing their problems as well as at least one of their competitors, Biffa

Partly correct. I agree they did initially and quite reasonably blame Covid. There has been an intimation about low wages and Serco do appear to have a number of serious shortcomings.
You know as well as I do however that, at 13.19 on the 21st July, they referred to the situation being ‘compounded’ by the national shortage of HGV drivers which they attributed to Brexit.

[Andy_Faber]

Partly correct. I agree they did initially and quite reasonably blame Covid. There has been an intimation about low wages and Serco do appear to have a number of serious shortcomings.
You know as well as I do however that, at 13.19 on the 21st July, they referred to the situation being ‘compounded’ by the national shortage of HGV drivers which they attributed to Brexit.

On the basis that 'compounding' in your use of the word means 'adding incrementally to' yes you are correct and not even partially. But its still only one of four, five, six or seven reasons so any intimation that Brexit is the prime driver of the problem is incorrect and it may, just may, be that the council (whatever its allegiance, self-preservation has many colours) is looking to find the easy fall guy to divert from its own incompetence. I think GP makes that same point

[ramAnag]

On the basis that 'compounding' in your use of the word means 'adding incrementally to' yes you are correct and not even partially. But its still only one of four, five, six or seven reasons so any intimation that Brexit is the prime driver of the problem is incorrect and it may, just may, be that the council (whatever its allegiance, self-preservation has many colours) is looking to find the easy fall guy to divert from its own incompetence. I think GP makes that same point

Okay...let’s add some further context to resolve this.
The missive from Derbyshire Dales was written almost three weeks ago to justify the use of central government provided Coronavirus emergency funding.

It quoted a ‘localgov.uk’ report which suggested that the ‘emergency situation’ had been created by ‘the numbers of staff told to self isolate by the COVID-19 app’.

The concluding sentence reads, ‘This has been compounded by a national shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers AS A RESULT OF BREXIT’.

I recognise that we’re both as stubborn as each other, but to avoid any confusion, I am quoting from the excitingly titled ‘Waste and recycling update’ issued by Tory controlled and Brexit supporting Derbyshire Dales District Council at 13:19:47 on 21st July ‘21.

I don’t dispute or claim to know whether, as you suggest, this may be an example of the council seeking to shift blame, but it seems quite unequivocal in where it lays the blame for the shortage of HGV drivers to me.

[MadAmster]

I’m struggling to think of any other change - major or more minor - that you’d allow five years before you judged it. One that springs to mind was in 1972 when we joined the EU in the first place. Major incidents such as these take time to settle.

.

..... and that only went to a referendum because it was discovered and then very enthusuastically pushed that Ted and his cabinet had broken the Law in taking us into the Common Market. I'm confused by the "5 years" you mention. Heath took us in, on 1/1/73 and the referendum was on 5/6/75. Just under 2 and a half years later.

Turnout in the referendum was just over 64% and just over 67% voted to remain. 42.88% of those eligible to vote voted to remain.

[Geoff Parkstone]

MA: I wasnt actually referencing the post joining referendum, just saying that it took a long time to get used to and accomodate the changes wrought by joining the EU back then - eg about 5 years, with huge changes to agricultural policy and the introduction of VAT to name but two

rA: I don’t dispute or claim to know whether, as you suggest, this may be an example of the council seeking to shift blame, but it seems quite unequivocal in where it lays the blame for the shortage of HGV drivers to me. This is exactly the point - that is where the Council apportion blame. Unequivocally. But that doesn't make it true. Do you believe everything that is told to you - eg by Mr Johnson, or other Tory politicians such as your council? I don't remember this being a character trait of your's previously - although believing these politicians does fit the agenda this time

[ramAnag]

MA: I wasnt actually referencing the post joining referendum, just saying that it took a long time to get used to and accomodate the changes wrought by joining the EU back then - eg about 5 years, with huge changes to agricultural policy and the introduction of VAT to name but two

rA: I don’t dispute or claim to know whether, as you suggest, this may be an example of the council seeking to shift blame, but it seems quite unequivocal in where it lays the blame for the shortage of HGV drivers to me. This is exactly the point - that is where the Council apportion blame. Unequivocally. But that doesn't make it true. Do you believe everything that is told to you - eg by Mr Johnson, or other Tory politicians such as your council? I don't remember this being a character trait of your's previously - although believing these politicians does fit the agenda this time

Two disappointing answers there GP in response to two factual responses. I’ll leave MA to deal with his point.

As regards mine. Clearly, from reading what you’ve highlighted in red, I don’t claim to know who is telling the truth.
You’re right, I believe Johnson is an inveterate liar, but the point isn’t what or who I believe.
The point is that, in the context of being asked about personal experiences of the impact of Brexit, I have cited a Tory council attributing blame for the serious shortage of HGV drivers directly to Brexit.
Had I quoted a left wing MP/council or dedicated ’Remainer’ you’d have a point and I wouldn’t expect you to take much notice...but I haven’t.
So surely when a loyal to the government true blue Tory council makes such a point about Brexit even you should be prepared to be rather less dismissive.