O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[optipez]

That is completely wrong. Here you go:

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

Just to be clear, I've taken the vaccine so I'm not a conspiracy theorist, they have been shown to work and I absolutely believe in their efforts acy.
There's been a lot of studies on mask wearing the last couple of years and at best they've been inconclusive. It's very tricky to measure as even with control groups you can't necessarily give exact like for like experience in real world environments.
On observation from cities and countries with strong mask wearing protocols most studies haven't been able to nail their colours to the mast and say it's made a difference. Paris and New York have both been pretty strict and are both seeing remorsely rising cases at the moment.
If there was conclusive proof Whitty and Vallance would absolutely have put up a graph at their press conferences , Hancock would have been shouting from the roof tops and we would all have heard about it.
When pressed they've admitted that evidence is thin, which is a 180° U turn on their original comments when they told us not to wear them. It's also worth noting that the masks most people wear aren't top quality or even a good fit.
Personally and anecdotes are entirely unscientific, I've watched a lot of people I know who've followed the rules and protocols very closely and still some have succumbed but thankfully all got better.
I'll nail my colours to the mast though Cher and say that Covid is endemic now and that it's going to rip through the whole world, New Zealand included in the end as people will just get worn down in a war of attrition lasting years that can't be won.

[Elite_Pie]

There's been a lot of studies on mask wearing the last couple of years and at best they've been inconclusive.

I bloody hate wearing a mask, but the reason I wear one when I'm told is based on common sense more than any random stats. We know the virus is spread by droplets, so containing those droplets behind a mask seems a better option than expelling them to everyone else.

It's designed to protect others rather than yourself, that's why I comply.

[cher1]

Just to be clear, I've taken the vaccine so I'm not a conspiracy theorist, they have been shown to work and I absolutely believe in their efforts acy.
There's been a lot of studies on mask wearing the last couple of years and at best they've been inconclusive. It's very tricky to measure as even with control groups you can't necessarily give exact like for like experience in real world environments.
On observation from cities and countries with strong mask wearing protocols most studies haven't been able to nail their colours to the mast and say it's made a difference. Paris and New York have both been pretty strict and are both seeing remorsely rising cases at the moment.
If there was conclusive proof Whitty and Vallance would absolutely have put up a graph at their press conferences , Hancock would have been shouting from the roof tops and we would all have heard about it.
When pressed they've admitted that evidence is thin, which is a 180° U turn on their original comments when they told us not to wear them. It's also worth noting that the masks most people wear aren't top quality or even a good fit.
Personally and anecdotes are entirely unscientific, I've watched a lot of people I know who've followed the rules and protocols very closely and still some have succumbed but thankfully all got better.
I'll nail my colours to the mast though Cher and say that Covid is endemic now and that it's going to rip through the whole world, New Zealand included in the end as people will just get worn down in a war of attrition lasting years that can't be won.

Some of the very early studies were inconclusive, but the evidence is more robust now. That piece in the BMJ looked at many studies and masks do reduce transmission. Addenbrookes did a study using upgraded masks for all staff who were exposed to covid patients (rather than the bog standard ones) and they offered up to 100% protection.

Sadly, I completely agree with the last part of your post.

[upthemaggies]

Latest figures from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre now showing the majority of Covid ICU patients in October and November were vaccinated.

[optipez]

I bloody hate wearing a mask, but the reason I wear one when I'm told is based on common sense more than any random stats. We know the virus is spread by droplets, so containing those droplets behind a mask seems a better option than expelling them to everyone else.

It's designed to protect others rather than yourself, that's why I comply.

I comp!y because it's the law, I think it's futile but hey ho.

[Elite_Pie]

Latest figures from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre now showing the majority of Covid ICU patients in October and November were vaccinated.

Not surprising, because the vast majority of people are now vaccinated! Do you have stats on any correlation between jabbed and unjabbed people based on numbers in each group? Even then, it would need to be broken down into age groups, because the very young at least risk will be included as 'unjabbed' mainly because it hasn't been offered to them.

I've said before I don't like these links because it's easy to find one that says what you want it to say, but I'll break my rule and post this:

Unvaccinated people are 32 times more likely to die from coronavirus than those who have been doubled-jabbed, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics.

You could probably find some obscure link to contradict that, but because it's a gamble I prefer to try and keep the odds in my favour.

[Elite_Pie]

I comp!y because it's the law, I think it's futile but hey ho.

I comply because it's the law, also because from what I've read it seems a sensible law.

[Mapperleypie]

Latest figures from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre now showing the majority of Covid ICU patients in October and November were vaccinated.

Most people who die in road accidents in the UK were wearing a seatbelt. Seatbelts clearly don’t work.

[magpie_mania]

Not surprising, because the vast majority of people are now vaccinated! Do you have stats on any correlation between jabbed and unjabbed people based on numbers in each group? Even then, it would need to be broken down into age groups, because the very young at least risk will be included as 'unjabbed' mainly because it hasn't been offered to them.

I've said before I don't like these links because it's easy to find one that says what you want it to say, but I'll break my rule and post this:

Unvaccinated people are 32 times more likely to die from coronavirus than those who have been doubled-jabbed, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics.

You could probably find some obscure link to contradict that, but because it's a gamble I prefer to try and keep the odds in my favour.

Just had a quick google.

From 1 day ago

The majority of patients in critical care with coronavirus are unvaccinated, hospital figures show.

'Staff at Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust - which runs the Queen's Medical Centre and Nottingham City Hospital - confirmed there were currently 14 patients with coronavirus in critical care. And they said that 12 of them weren't vaccinated.'

[magpie_mania]

I comply because it's the law, also because from what I've read it seems a sensible law.

I agree. I'm not sure that any research would be able to say categorically that masks work against Covid, because you need control figures which just aren't available.

To me it just seems sense that if someone coughs over me, I'm less likely to be infected if they are wearing a mask than if they aren't.