ot unvaccinated nhs staff

[rileyev.the.third]

I’m triple vaccinated but actually got Covid before the vaccine was created. Apart from loss of taste and smell I felt absolutely fine. Think luck does come into play with how severe the symptoms are but the stats do show vaccinated people tend to fare better.

[John2]

Even you John must admit there's a big difference between 150,000+ and 15,700!

Counting people who went into to hospital with unrelated illnesses and died with covid after catching it in hospital is in my view massaging the figures

OK, just to clarify, are you in all honesty saying you believe that of the 150,000 covid deaths, only 15,700 of them were actually due to covid? Do you actually believe that?

[ragingpup]

I think a dangerous new sect is emerging: fundamentalist pro-vaxers.

It's pretty obvious now that the fear about the virus does not match its severity. It was even downgraded as an illness in March 2020.

What happens then is that those people who can't accept that they have been scared out of their wits by government scaremongering become even more militant about their original opinion.

A bit like born again Christians who cannot accept that there are inconsistencies in their views. Rather than take these on board they become even more fundamentalist....to save face.


* Just to clarify, I do think there is a virus which is very dangerous for some. Just thought I would put that in for those that do not understand nuance and shades of grey.

Can't say I know that many fundamentalist anti vaccers. But I know of many that simply take the emerging pandemic as something that at first we didn't understand, was quite severe as an illness (Alpha/Delta attacking the lung tissue) and therefore government responded (quite slowly in many people's opinion) with lockdown and various other contingencies as we got more info. I would agree that much media responded poorly with an over emphasis on extreme cases but we all know they are click whores so no surprise there surely?

But as Omicron has emerged, mainly affecting the upper lung area making it more infectious and less serious, I think most are aware that the health dangers are much less and it seems to me that restrictions are being sensibly lifted. I know of some people who are still very scared of going out, some beyond reason, but to call them fundamentalist is very blinkered, especially as you are trying to claim to understand nuance. I'm sure there are extreme opinions on the cautious side out there, but unfortuantely there are just as many on the other side claiming conspiracies everywhere, when we've simply responded in a bungled, confused but sometimes in an efficiant and inspiring way as a society to a new disease outbreak.

If you're going to claim to be able to discern nuance, try practicing it yourself?

[gm_gm]

OK, just to clarify, are you in all honesty saying you believe that of the 150,000 covid deaths, only 15,700 of them were actually due to covid? Do you actually believe that?

You have tangented again...I asked you the same in reverse, if someone gets hit by car and dies you think covid killed them?

I gave an example the other day about my wife's friends husbands, admitted to hospital without Covid after having a heart attack, unfortunately passed away but caught Covid while in hospital....cause of death lodged as Covid. His Widow furious as now they have to have a closed coffin.

To answer your question I believe its nearer 15k than 150k

[frogmiller]

The Doctor Who Fooled the World: Andrew Wakefield’s War on Vaccines

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02989-9

[Derbymiller]

taking part in medical experiements is a personal decision and attacking people that don't because based on risk assessment and personal reseach using their right for informed consent is something that our fathers and grandfathers fought for. One of the few things that came out of WW2 was the Nuremberg code, and forcing vaccinations and medical experiments on people was stopped. We have to protect personal freedoms and liberties. I worked for 5 years in the Clinical Trial business and I know how to look at the data and how to assess risk of drugs and treatments and let me tell you this, there is not enough data on these experimental vaccines and what has been forced to be realeased following the US court hearings should scare the crap out of you, this is all about rich people getting richer and NOTHING to do with health, this is about making people dependent on large pharma for the rest of your lives. I suggest before people start wanting to sack people and discriminate against people and support a government that wants to force the citizens it is supposed to represent into medical experiements you turn off your TV news, stop buying newspapers and pick up the scientific articles and data and some history books and see what is happening here. Also check out the wording of the recent Police act and the proposed changes to the UK Human Rights act and then you will see what the establishmnet has in line for you, your children and your gand children, that is ALL parties. Please don't let those bas****s turn us against each other and divide us, think outside the box and support each other when we exercise our freedoms and our rights, because next time it could be YOU

[John2]

You have tangented again...I asked you the same in reverse, if someone gets hit by car and dies you think covid killed them?

I already answered this. Of course that is a flaw of the metric of recording covid deaths as within 28 days of a positive test that would inflate the numbers for examples like you describe.

But you've got tunnel vision... it works both ways. There are also deaths of people who had covid but didn't test positive that aren't included in those figures. Also those that died as a result of their covid after the 28 day period.

There's no perfect metric.

To answer your question I believe its nearer 15k than 150k

This admission is extraordinary and shows how disconnected from reality you have become by whatever information you've been consuming.


Can we agree that a less contentious metric we have is the number of excess deaths compared to the average we'd expect?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...deaths-tracker

Here we can see that from Mar 16th 2020-Jan 9th 2022 we have seen an excess of 152,260 deaths compared to the official covid figure of 150,230.

I'd love to see your explanation for this and whatever cognitive dissonance you come up with. The simplest explanations are often the best... just maybe you're misinformed?

[CAMiller]

taking part in medical experiements is a personal decision and attacking people that don't because based on risk assessment and personal reseach using their right for informed consent is something that our fathers and grandfathers fought for. One of the few things that came out of WW2 was the Nuremberg code, and forcing vaccinations and medical experiments on people was stopped. We have to protect personal freedoms and liberties. I worked for 5 years in the Clinical Trial business and I know how to look at the data and how to assess risk of drugs and treatments and let me tell you this, there is not enough data on these experimental vaccines and what has been forced to be realeased following the US court hearings should scare the crap out of you, this is all about rich people getting richer and NOTHING to do with health, this is about making people dependent on large pharma for the rest of your lives. I suggest before people start wanting to sack people and discriminate against people and support a government that wants to force the citizens it is supposed to represent into medical experiements you turn off your TV news, stop buying newspapers and pick up the scientific articles and data and some history books and see what is happening here. Also check out the wording of the recent Police act and the proposed changes to the UK Human Rights act and then you will see what the establishmnet has in line for you, your children and your gand children, that is ALL parties. Please don't let those bas****s turn us against each other and divide us, think outside the box and support each other when we exercise our freedoms and our rights, because next time it could be YOU

Thanks for clearing that up Derby. While you are at it can you answer 'Did man land on the moon?' and 'Who shot JFK?' as it would settle a few arguments on here

[great_fire]

Serious question:

Can it be proved that a jab reduces the impact of covid?

How do we know that those who were jabbed and caught it, would have had worse symptoms without it.?

Is the jab taking the credit for something that may have another explanation?

I don't know to be honest

It's the old "tiger repellent" thing.

Every day I spray myself with tiger repellent and I haven't been attacked by a tiger once, therefore it's very effective and I'll keep spraying myself with it.

The vaccines and the masks can fall into this category.

Climate change is similar, say it's man-made and who can prove otherwise?

[ragingpup]

I already answered this. Of course that is a flaw of the metric of recording covid deaths as within 28 days of a positive test that would inflate the numbers for examples like you describe.

But you've got tunnel vision... it works both ways. There are also deaths of people who had covid but didn't test positive that aren't included in those figures. Also those that died as a result of their covid after the 28 day period.

There's no perfect metric.



This admission is extraordinary and shows how disconnected from reality you have become by whatever information you've been consuming.


Can we agree that a less contentious metric we have is the number of excess deaths compared to the average we'd expect?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...deaths-tracker

Here we can see that from Mar 16th 2020-Jan 9th 2022 we have seen an excess of 152,260 deaths compared to the official covid figure of 150,230.

I'd love to see your explanation for this and whatever cognitive dissonance you come up with. The simplest explanations are often the best... just maybe you're misinformed?

Nice graphic! Bloody hell, look at Peru? Is there anyone left there?!