Boris is going, do you think

[grantzer]

Which industry in Scotland cuts and burns Peat on an industrial scale.

That will be the same Industry that has pledged 1 million quid to Community groups in islay over the next 5 years

[BCram]

Which industry in Scotland cuts and burns Peat on an industrial scale.

Whisky industry. Do you think there is something that makes peat flavoured Whisky very bad for Scotland trying to reach a zero net carbon economy?
Might it have been pressure from Islay Whisky producers that got the peat bogs excluded?

[grantzer]

Whisky industry. Do you think there is something that makes peat flavoured Whisky very bad for Scotland trying to reach a zero net carbon economy?
Might it have been pressure from Islay Whisky producers that got the peat bogs excluded?

Shouldn't really matter to Islay, as climate change is a myth invented by "mad scientists"....

[BCram]

Shouldn't really matter to Islay, as climate change is a myth invented by "mad scientists"....

Accept you were making a joke of the situation but the remedies being proposed by the "mad scientists" have enormous costs for everybody and very little economic benefit. When I studied economics the infrastructure was pretty well owned by the people via the government of the day. This led to a straightforward relationship between the cost of the service, the level of subsidy and the tax needed to pay for that subsidy. Nobody, absolutely nobody, thought that running gas or electricity or phone companies was an economic activity that generated economic growth. The basic requirements produced by these businesses had to be delivered at a price that helped manufacturing to make a profit. Making things made money, at its simplest. Retailing and service industries simply cut up the economic Cake, they didn't make the cake bigger unless the sales were made to foreigners so that we had a surplus on the balance of trade. This is very very old school but I think we need to go back to basics and realise that green jobs do not provide any economic good.

[islaydarkblue]

Whisky industry. Do you think there is something that makes peat flavoured Whisky very bad for Scotland trying to reach a zero net carbon economy?
Might it have been pressure from Islay Whisky producers that got the peat bogs excluded?

Last January 2022 I exchanged a series of emails with a member of the Climate Change committee who told me that the CO2 emissions from Peatlands had not been counted since 2010 as it was too difficult to count them.
My source told me that they have been counting the CO2 emissions since 2020 but his person could not explain how they had suddenly managed to discover a magic formula.
It might have been due to Greta Thunberg and the leaders of Extinction Rebellion complaining about Global warming. The member of the Climate Change Committee also told me that they are planning to re wet peat bogs.
I asked my source how they were planning to do that as a lot of the peat bogs were in remote and inaccessible places where it would difficult to transport large amounts of water to re wet these peat bogs.
My source told me that the Climate Change Committee members solution is to remove trees from these peat bogs as the trees were drying out the peat bogs.
That looks like another desk top exercise to me using Google maps.
I replied that on the island of Islay there are few trees in the areas where there are peat bogs. One large peat bog on Islay has been completely dug out due to the cutting of peat by the whisky distilleries on Islay and the Maltings in Port Ellen.
The Maltings on Port Ellen are working 24/7 all the year round apart from the Christmas and New Year public holidays.
What really annoys me is that we now have E10 bio ethanol in our unleaded petrol to supposedly save the planet and we are paying high electricity bills to pay for the feed in tariff for windmills and solar panels throughout the U.K. while the Scotch Whisky industry has been getting off ‘scotch free’.
We have a 3 weekly uplift of our General Waste in the Argyll and Bute Council area to meet Scottish Government targets to reduce CO2 emissions whilst at the same time the Scottish Government has been ignoring the CO2 emissions from the cutting and burning of peat by the Scotch Whisky Industry in their total annual CO2 emissions figure.
In Dundee it is a two weekly uplift of General Waste again to meet Scottish Government targets to reduce CO2 emissions.
It will be interesting to see how the Scottish Government manage to ‘massage’ their annual CO2 emissions total when they start including the CO2 emissions from Peatlands and if they will admit that they have not been counting the CO2 emissions total from Peatlands since 2010.
I suspect that CO2 emissions from Peatlands have never been counted until the term Global Warming became fashionable.

[islaydarkblue]

That will be the same Industry that has pledged 1 million quid to Community groups in islay over the next 5 years

Which whisky distilleries have pledged £1 million to Community groups on Islay over the next five years.
The whisky distilleries would be far better sponsoring the main roads on Islay which are wrecked every year thanks to the 44 ton HGV lorries delivering goods and supplies to these distilleries.
The roads are full of pot holes caused by these 44 ton HGVs but none of the politicians or the Islay Community Councillors do anything about because they are happy to ‘touch the forelock’ to the owners of the whisky distilleries on Islay.
I suggest that you take a holiday on Islay and see the damage caused to the main roads for yourself.

[Deeranged]

Last January 2022 I exchanged a series of emails with a member of the Climate Change committee who told me that the CO2 emissions from Peatlands had not been counted since 2010 as it was too difficult to count them.
My source told me that they have been counting the CO2 emissions since 2020 but his person could not explain how they had suddenly managed to discover a magic formula.
It might have been due to Greta Thunberg and the leaders of Extinction Rebellion complaining about Global warming. The member of the Climate Change Committee also told me that they are planning to re wet peat bogs.
I asked my source how they were planning to do that as a lot of the peat bogs were in remote and inaccessible places where it would difficult to transport large amounts of water to re wet these peat bogs.
My source told me that the Climate Change Committee members solution is to remove trees from these peat bogs as the trees were drying out the peat bogs.
That looks like another desk top exercise to me using Google maps.
I replied that on the island of Islay there are few trees in the areas where there are peat bogs. One large peat bog on Islay has been completely dug out due to the cutting of peat by the whisky distilleries on Islay and the Maltings in Port Ellen.
The Maltings on Port Ellen are working 24/7 all the year round apart from the Christmas and New Year public holidays.
What really annoys me is that we now have E10 bio ethanol in our unleaded petrol to supposedly save the planet and we are paying high electricity bills to pay for the feed in tariff for windmills and solar panels throughout the U.K. while the Scotch Whisky industry has been getting off ‘scotch free’.
We have a 3 weekly uplift of our General Waste in the Argyll and Bute Council area to meet Scottish Government targets to reduce CO2 emissions whilst at the same time the Scottish Government has been ignoring the CO2 emissions from the cutting and burning of peat by the Scotch Whisky Industry in their total annual CO2 emissions figure.
In Dundee it is a two weekly uplift of General Waste again to meet Scottish Government targets to reduce CO2 emissions.
It will be interesting to see how the Scottish Government manage to ‘massage’ their annual CO2 emissions total when they start including the CO2 emissions from Peatlands and if they will admit that they have not been counting the CO2 emissions total from Peatlands since 2010.
I suspect that CO2 emissions from Peatlands have never been counted until the term Global Warming became fashionable.

I thought the peatlands captured CO2 rather than emitting it? Is it not the case that they act as Carbon sinks and contribute only an estimated 2% - 4% of global CO2 emissions?

If that's the case why would the Scottish Government, or even you, care about the amount of CO2 being emitted by them when they don't actually emit much but store many, many billion tons of it?

The peat bogs of Great Britain cover an area of 8,800 sq miles - the craggy island of Islay covers approximately 240 sq miles - it's peatlands are therefore pretty insignificant in the wider scheme of things so why do you bang on so much about the distilleries burning peat? It really will have little or no effect on Britain's total peat bog coverage and therefore carbon storage.

You do also realise that back in the day many of the people of Britain used to depend on the peat bogs for heating and cooking don't you? So it's nothing new to be burning peat, in fact with the scrubbers now compulsory in all solid fuel burning facilities the island's carbon release is likely less than it was in the 60s and 70s. I think we're all old enough to remember the gritty feeling of the air as we walked around the housing schemes in winter when all the houses were burning coal, wood (including pianos in hard times) or even peat.

Restoration of peatland is obviously not easy but by simply reducing the loss of water from them they will regenerate in time. In the mid twentieth century there was a drive in Scotland to use peat bogs as tree farms; this effectively drained the bogs of their water supply, this is being reversed and the trees removed - I see evidence of this everywhere when out hill walking. The loss of water can also be acheived by removing drainage ditches, again there is an ongoing programme to manage the drainage ditches.

However, just you bang on with the one person's opinion that you got by email, bearing in mind of course that as that person is a member of the Climate Change Committee they have a clear agenda to stress the negative.

[BCram]

I thought the peatlands captured CO2 rather than emitting it? Is it not the case that they act as Carbon sinks and contribute only an estimated 2% - 4% of global CO2 emissions?

If that's the case why would the Scottish Government, or even you, care about the amount of CO2 being emitted by them when they don't actually emit much but store many, many billion tons of it?

The peat bogs of Great Britain cover an area of 8,800 sq miles - the craggy island of Islay covers approximately 240 sq miles - it's peatlands are therefore pretty insignificant in the wider scheme of things so why do you bang on so much about the distilleries burning peat? It really will have little or no effect on Britain's total peat bog coverage and therefore carbon storage.

You do also realise that back in the day many of the people of Britain used to depend on the peat bogs for heating and cooking don't you? So it's nothing new to be burning peat, in fact with the scrubbers now compulsory in all solid fuel burning facilities the island's carbon release is likely less than it was in the 60s and 70s. I think we're all old enough to remember the gritty feeling of the air as we walked around the housing schemes in winter when all the houses were burning coal, wood (including pianos in hard times) or even peat.

Restoration of peatland is obviously not easy but by simply reducing the loss of water from them they will regenerate in time. In the mid twentieth century there was a drive in Scotland to use peat bogs as tree farms; this effectively drained the bogs of their water supply, this is being reversed and the trees removed - I see evidence of this everywhere when out hill walking. The loss of water can also be acheived by removing drainage ditches, again there is an ongoing programme to manage the drainage ditches.

However, just you bang on with the one person's opinion that you got by email, bearing in mind of course that as that person is a member of the Climate Change Committee they have a clear agenda to stress the negative.

Wet peatlands retain carbon. Thats the point that I think Islay is trying to make. Planting trees on bogs, as was done on a large scale in the Flow Country was stopped. The trees cut down and are now rotting their way into oblivion. Peat used for flavouring whisky as described by Islay obviously is a process that releases carbon. It seems to me that there must have been a reason why the initial decision was made to exclude Scottish peatlands from the calculations of carbon capture for Scotland. I think it looks like an odd decision and there does not seem to be a scientific justification.

[islaydarkblue]

I thought the peatlands captured CO2 rather than emitting it? Is it not the case that they act as Carbon sinks and contribute only an estimated 2% - 4% of global CO2 emissions?

If that's the case why would the Scottish Government, or even you, care about the amount of CO2 being emitted by them when they don't actually emit much but store many, many billion tons of it?

The peat bogs of Great Britain cover an area of 8,800 sq miles - the craggy island of Islay covers approximately 240 sq miles - it's peatlands are therefore pretty insignificant in the wider scheme of things so why do you bang on so much about the distilleries burning peat? It really will have little or no effect on Britain's total peat bog coverage and therefore carbon storage.

You do also realise that back in the day many of the people of Britain used to depend on the peat bogs for heating and cooking don't you? So it's nothing new to be burning peat, in fact with the scrubbers now compulsory in all solid fuel burning facilities the island's carbon release is likely less than it was in the 60s and 70s. I think we're all old enough to remember the gritty feeling of the air as we walked around the housing schemes in winter when all the houses were burning coal, wood (including pianos in hard times) or even peat.

Restoration of peatland is obviously not easy but by simply reducing the loss of water from them they will regenerate in time. In the mid twentieth century there was a drive in Scotland to use peat bogs as tree farms; this effectively drained the bogs of their water supply, this is being reversed and the trees removed - I see evidence of this everywhere when out hill walking. The loss of water can also be acheived by removing drainage ditches, again there is an ongoing programme to manage the drainage ditches.

However, just you bang on with the one person's opinion that you got by email, bearing in mind of course that as that person is a member of the Climate Change Committee they have a clear agenda to stress the negative.

For your information the person I exchanged emails with is a member of the Climate Change Committee.
You will probably remember that smokeless zones were introduced throughout the whole of the U.K. which stopped people burning coal unless it was smokeless coal. We no longer hear about smokeless zones.
I initially carried out my own research on the burning of peat by the whisky distilleries on Islay in the first half of 2015.
At the time Bowmore Distillery were cutting and burning 200 - 300 tons of peat to produce their peated whisky.
The manager of Laphroaig distillery stated in an article in the internet that they were cutting and burning 140 tons of peat.
The Maltings in Port Ellen who are owned by Diageo were cutting and burning 2,500 tons of Islay peat to make peated scotch whisky.
The Maltings are currently working flat out with a continuous plume of smoke emitting from their chimneys 24/7 which is as a result of burning the peat.
However this insufficient for all the nine working distilleries on Islay as the Maltings gives preference to the Diageo owned whisky distilleries on Islay namely Lagavulin and Caol Ila.
The other distilleries either have to malt their barley themselves or get their barley malted at Maltings near Inverness to their own required peated requirements.
There would never have been a problem with CO2 emissions if the peat had been left in the ground with the whisky distilleries using their own water supply to create their own whisky.
Prince Charles who is continually banging on about Climate Change is part of the problem as he continually promotes the drinking of heavily peated scotch whisky with Laphroaig single malt whisky being his favourite.

[islaydarkblue]

Wet peatlands retain carbon. Thats the point that I think Islay is trying to make. Planting trees on bogs, as was done on a large scale in the Flow Country was stopped. The trees cut down and are now rotting their way into oblivion. Peat used for flavouring whisky as described by Islay obviously is a process that releases carbon. It seems to me that there must have been a reason why the initial decision was made to exclude Scottish peatlands from the calculations of carbon capture for Scotland. I think it looks like an odd decision and there does not seem to be a scientific justification.

Michael Mathieson who is the Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero, Transport and Connectivty should be to give the answer why the CO2 emissions from the cutting and burning of peat have not been getting counted by the Scottish Government.
Whether he is willing to give that explanation is debatable.