Liz Truss

[baggiematt]

I was expecting you to actually send me a link but now i be must admit, it’s like one of those tory lies you’ve just told us. I’d like to see the evidence Matt.

I wanted to see where you obtained the figures from to back your claim. Did the amount Tories spend include everything since the start of the Pandemic? Because that cost a fortune. Remember how well equipped our NHS was for that? Flattened the curve so the NHS can cope.
Based on your past posts you must be some secret agent or something trying to smear labour and deceive people to think the tories spent more. I don’t buy that, and i can tell con a mile off.

Your ability to spot a con, is as useful as t*ts on a nun.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...estimates/2021

[animallittle3]

Human nature means that no society will ever be fair and inequalities around power and money will always exist-particularly so in autocratic ones. As a system, democracy is not perfect and this is best seen in the fact that it allows the voices of sizeable minorities to be ignored. In the current global situation many are becoming more questioning of this but, although it is messy and imperfect, it is a better system than some of the alternatives!

In a modern democracy, like our own, whilst it is a given that political parties will stick to their particular beliefs and primarily look after the interests of those that voted them into power, surely any government also still has a duty to try and care for all elements of society as best it can? In this regard, am I alone in beginning to believe that Sunak actually has more of a social conscience than Truss?

Yeh that clip in the Tory leadership contest where he was bragging to a number of Tory members in some well healed town in Kent that he'd taken money outlined for the most deprived areas in the UK and had given it to other leafy areas instead proved otherwise .

[Dubbag]

If your car hasn't properly been looked after and serviced, then it really doesn't matter who is doing the driving.
This is beyond party politics now.

[regis80]

Your ability to spot a con, is as useful as t*ts on a nun.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...estimates/2021

I'm not sure which part of that source you want me to look at because majority of it all refers to 2021, great Matt!

There is however another graph that shows the expenditure since 1997 but you know what the notes states:

Notes:

Figures are presented in nominal terms (current prices), unadjusted for inflation.

If you look at Healthcare spending as a share of GDP since the Tories came in, before the pandemic you can see they have not increased investment. I'm not sure where this claim you make that Tories have spent more and what point you are trying to make. It's all relative to GDP. What you need to be comparing is to see who has invested more relatively and not based on how long each party has been in power. It's obvious a part in power for longer would have spent more - so the question begs what have they done with all that money. They wouldn't award their pals PPE contracts by any chance eh?

With all this said, I need to make clear i'm not here to suggest we should plough as much money into the NHS as we can - as Mick has said, it is badly run in many parts which I agree with. It just need better management and the Tories will never achiev that. They didn't in the 12 years they've been in power but they've siphoned billions and gave them to their pals.

[baggiematt]

I'm not sure which part of that source you want me to look at because majority of it all refers to 2021, great Matt!

There is however another graph that shows the expenditure since 1997 but you know what the notes states:

Notes:

Figures are presented in nominal terms (current prices), unadjusted for inflation.

If you look at Healthcare spending as a share of GDP since the Tories came in, before the pandemic you can see they have not increased investment. I'm not sure where this claim you make that Tories have spent more and what point you are trying to make. It's all relative to GDP. What you need to be comparing is to see who has invested more relatively and not based on how long each party has been in power. It's obvious a part in power for longer would have spent more - so the question begs what have they done with all that money. They wouldn't award their pals PPE contracts by any chance eh?

With all this said, I need to make clear i'm not here to suggest we should plough as much money into the NHS as we can - as Mick has said, it is badly run in many parts which I agree with. It just need better management and the Tories will never achiev that. They didn't in the 12 years they've been in power but they've siphoned billions and gave them to their pals.

Getting to the point where I and you don't know what you are trying to point out here. You said that austerity has been too severe...I said it hasn't and provided you information that backs this up. I don't know what you mean about 2021, it's a very clear picture of spend over a long period of time. You're right it doesn't account for inflation, which up to this year has been quite low - it was less than half a percent in 2015!

You can bring in opinion after opinion, but it will be just that...opinion, which we're all entitled to.

[WBA123]

I'm sorry but you can't seriously think that employing more police and firemen will improve the economy? I mean maybe very very mildly, but I don't think BMW will build a factory here because of the new bobbies that patrol the area. Mob rule hasn't quite taken over just yet!

I have asked for an alternative to austerity and the only response is that it should have been lighter. But in reality, the Tory govt since coming into power has year on year spent more than Labour did on the NHS. Also, that pension crisis we have all heard of has cost £32b more since the start of 2009. Welfare has increased by £60b. Incredible isn't it! And as a result of the fiscal boost in 2008/9 (which isn't a tap you can just turn off) the interest payments alone are £45b per year. And all you read is about the £1b cut in police funding...it's an incredibly biased narrative twisted to suit the 'Tory out' brigade.

Austerity can hinder growth in certain areas, but it's clear that the austerity is very targeted to taper that.

And you say my perspective makes no sense. it makes absolute sense, the Tory government have had to spend money differently to Labour government due to us living longer, health needs, interest rates, pandemic and more has been funded into welfare. The debt we're in is also relative. It's reasonably high but not as high as France, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Belgium etc.

I'm not saying they are a brilliant government. In fact the return to sleaze has put me off voting for them in the next election, but I don't see a snippet of evidence to suggest we'd be better off with another party. Both Labour and Tories are centralists and advised by the same people FFS!

I absolutely do think it improves the economy, for the reasons mentioned and not just police but also youth centres and support workers. Have a look at how decimated they have been under Tory rule. Have a look at how many libraries have closed since 2010. It's hard to define how much of a difference it makes, but these things matter.

You mention £60bn welfare increase, when you cut 20k police for example, some of those people are going to be on welfare.

I don't have time to look at the figures, but my understand was that whilst year on year spending has increased, real time spending accounting for inflation decreased (I mean, they couldn't exactly cut the year on year spending could they...)

When you add in their mismanagement of public funding and blatant corruption which is rife at the top of the Tory party then its little wonder people are asking how we can afford to spend billions on faulty PPE and a T&T system that doesn't work, but then can't invest in public services like bus routes and youth support workers - which does help grow the economy.