O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[Jeekay56]

SWALE - Can we please have an “Ignore Thread” button

Once you've determined a thread isn't for you, stop clicking on it. It really is that simple. You can choose whether to engage or not.

[BanjoPie]

Once you've determined a thread isn't for you, stop clicking on it. It really is that simple. You can choose whether to engage or not.

SWALE - Can we please have an “Ignore Thread” button

[Elite_Pie]

SWALE - Can we please have an “Ignore Thread” button

SWALE - Can we please have a button to stop those demanding an “Ignore Thread” button repeatedly bumping this to the top of the board?

[SwalePie]

SWALE - Can we please have a button to stop those demanding an “Ignore Thread” button repeatedly bumping this to the top of the board?

[andy6025]

Whichever way you want to see Putin's posturing and interpret his verbal juggling Andy, whether the children were in Ukrainian or Russion territory, it doesn't alter the fact that they were just abducted from there and it doesn't allow him to do what he wants with them. His intentions have been seen as a way to brainwash these kids into thinking they are Russian and then allow them to return home to spread discontent among families and communities who were confident they were Ukrainian. Him saying they were in a land that used to be part of Russia so he can do what he wants with them is unacceptable to any civilised society.

Ah, so that’s why he’s doing it - to brainwash the kids into slowly feeding discontent among their families. He’s playing the long game. Sinister indeed!

Will anyone stop this man? This is a job for Captain Zalensky and his plucky band of language insistent ultra nationalists. From what I’ve been told they’re a motley bunch of would be heroes with a whacky array of skill sets - a few scuba divers, an underwater sock bomb specialist, and a woman who’s got a mean side arm when throwing cans of tomato soup.

...Brainwashing, lol. Wait a minute... do you think that maybe... naah. Forgedabowdid.

In all seriousness though, I don’t think the Russian argument would be that the territory *used to* be Russian, and thus removing children from the line of fire is ok, but rather that it *is* Russian territory.

[Old_pie]

Ah, so that’s why he’s doing it - to brainwash the kids into slowly feeding discontent among their families. He’s playing the long game. Sinister indeed!

Will anyone stop this man? This is a job for Captain Zalensky and his plucky band of language insistent ultra nationalists. From what I’ve been told they’re a motley bunch of would be heroes with a whacky array of skill sets - a few scuba divers, an underwater sock bomb specialist, and a woman who’s got a mean side arm when throwing cans of tomato soup.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet Andy. How's Putin's Special Operations going? Was it one week to roll over the comic Zalensky? Or keep NATO away from his borders "Turkey, Hungary to approve Finland’s NATO membership " (https://www.politico.eu/article/turk...weden-edrogan/). Or was the West (well European West) supposed to freeze to death over the lack of fuel, or grind to a standstill?

Still, Putin seems very satisfied with his smashing to bits the Mariupol, big smirk on his face. Big man, your hero.

In all seriousness though, I don’t think the Russian argument would be that the territory *used to* be Russian, and thus removing children from the line of fire is ok, but rather that it *is* Russian territory.

Is Russian in what sense? Internationally recognised? Or in the same sense Canada used to be British? Or maybe French even? Or perhaps more honourably to those indigineous people who lived there before.

[andy6025]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet Andy. How's Putin's Special Operations going? Was it one week to roll over the comic Zalensky? Or keep NATO away from his borders "Turkey, Hungary to approve Finland’s NATO membership " (https://www.politico.eu/article/turk...weden-edrogan/). Or was the West (well European West) supposed to freeze to death over the lack of fuel, or grind to a standstill?

Still, Putin seems very satisfied with his smashing to bits the Mariupol, big smirk on his face. Big man, your hero.




Is Russian in what sense? Internationally recognised? Or in the same sense Canada used to be British? Or maybe French even? Or perhaps more honourably to those indigineous people who lived there before.

The Russians seem content with the progress of the SMO. I’ve heard their officials say that they’re prepared for the long haul. I’ve not heard any Russian officials say they expected to win in a week. I’ve heard western officials say they expected the Russians to win in a week, but if you’ve got any Russian offficials saying that on record then do share.

I think a particular reason that Russians don’t want Nato on their Ukrainian border is that it’s mostly flat stepland into Russia from there, making it difficult to defend as they learned in 1942. Ukraine is also a significantly larger country, in terms of population (8 times the size of Finland), with a massive ethnic Russian population that were being shelled by ultranationalists who claimed to be their own government. Comparatively, I think the number of ethnic Russians with Finnish citizenship could probably fit in the family stand at meadow lane. Have no fear though - when Putin continues on his Imperialist rampage to recreate the Soviet Union and declare himself Tsar, I’m sure Finland will be near the top of his list. Except that we all know that Finland won the winter war and expelled the Russians forthwith.

I don’t know if anyone freezed to death. You’re closer to the action on that front than me. I hear electricity and gas bills are rather exorbitant though and that the UK’s economy is projected to contract for 2023. Meanwhile, Russia’s economy is in such tatters over the sanctions that forecasts have been revised to indicate that it’ll grow. Apparently the Russian Ruble (or is it still ‘the Rubble’?) was the worlds strongest performing currency of 2022, but that’s probably just Putin propaganda from his ever effective Facebook troll factories.

As for Mariupol, I think Putin probably is quite satisfied from his visit there. Seems reconstruction is underway. As for him being a big man... I think he’s rather short, n’est pas? But I did see both him and Xi handle a flight of stairs rather nimbly the other day when they met. The cheeky chinaman didn’t even use the hand rail! To be fair though to our own dear leaders, we all know Biden and Sunak aren’t really in control - they’re only reading the script.

To answer your last question, I think the Russians would probably say that the incorporated area in question *is* Russian in the sense that the UN charter recognizes the right of all peoples to self determination. As such it doesn’t matter who recognizes them and who doesn’t, it’s up to the people themselves to decide how they choose to identify. That’s the whole idea of self determination. Not sure what it has to do with the British and French in North America. In Canada the First Nation people have self determination and, as far as I can see, always will. Their relationship with the settler colonists has had some severe challenges, but unlike in the United States, the indigenous people here have never been a ‘conquered’ people and as such have as our foundation a treaty relationship.

[Jampie]

Right so the russian government says the war's going just fine, and you believe them, despite the evidence saying the opposite.

The russian government claims the economy's going to grow and you believe them, despite the evidence saying the opposite.

The UN recognises 0% of Ukraine as Russian BTW, and the right of self determination doesn't mean you can get together with a group of separatists and vote to leave a democratic nation. Especially not to join a non-democratic hole like russia. How would that ever be valid? If you live in a democracy and can vote, that's your right of self determination sorted.

You really oughtta try something... anything... that isn't just mindlessly repeating whatever ridiculous nonsense the Kremlin claim this week.

[andy6025]

Right so the russian government says the war's going just fine, and you believe them, despite the evidence saying the opposite.

The russian government claims the economy's going to grow and you believe them, despite the evidence saying the opposite.

The UN recognises 0% of Ukraine as Russian BTW, and the right of self determination doesn't mean you can get together with a group of separatists and vote to leave a democratic nation. Especially not to join a non-democratic hole like russia. How would that ever be valid? If you live in a democracy and can vote, that's your right of self determination sorted.

You really oughtta try something... anything... that isn't just mindlessly repeating whatever ridiculous nonsense the Kremlin claim this week.

It’s the IMF and other western analysts that say the Russian economy is growing.

https://en.thebell.io/imf-predicts-r...d-in-2023/?amp

Ascension to the UN requires affirmation by 2/3rds of UN member states and all permanent members of the UN Security Council. As such those territories that voted to join Russia have not and will likely never be recognized at the UN. Likewise, Kosovo isn’t recognized either. Nevertheless, both have effectively determined their futures. That’s why it’s called “self” determination.

[Old_pie]

It’s the IMF and other western analysts that say the Russian economy is growing.

https://en.thebell.io/imf-predicts-r...d-in-2023/?amp

Statistics statistics and lies! So the IMF overestimated how harmful the sanctions would be and have now revised their figures upwards. The only major country forecast to shrink in 2022 is now forecast to have minor growth this year.

Let's look at some of the real harm done in context:

MOEX stock exchange



IMG GDP



A few years ago Russia was a major growing economy and investment opportunity. Thankfully I pulled out before many stocks fell.

I guess China is buying a lot of oil and gas circumventing the sanctions and propping up the regime, ready to pull the strings when the time is right.