O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[i961pie]

A fairly damning report by several prominent Germans.

https://braveneweurope.com/michael-v...ce-for-ukraine

Utter drivel

[maddogslater]

For anyone who likes podcast this one with lex fridman is very good. A good insight of how and why NATO has been fking over Russia the last decade, also talks about Israel Palestine

https://open.spotify.com/episode/79j...StaJSf4SKlpotg

[drillerpie]

For anyone who likes podcast this one with lex fridman is very good. A good insight of how and why NATO has been fking over Russia the last decade, also talks about Israel Palestine

https://open.spotify.com/episode/79j...StaJSf4SKlpotg

I listened to this the other day and I thought it was very one-sided and even contradictory at times.

He says Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine (ignoring a fair bit of circumstantial evidence that he intended to conquer a large part of it) and we know this because he would need 2/3 million troops to do so.

He then later says that Putin may/should try and take up to 45% of Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't surrender in time. That, by his own calculations would require 1/1.5 million troops, which he doesn't have.

I didn't find this guy particularly impressive, but I know Andy considers him the number 1 expert on that part of the world, based on what I don't know. I thought he was omitting important information to the point of being downright misleading.

Lex Friedman's laissez faire interview style didn't help. I very much hope he has another podcast lined up with a less pro-Russia / anti NATO guest to compensate for this.

[i961pie]

I listened to this the other day and I thought it was very one-sided and even contradictory at times.

He says Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine (ignoring a fair bit of circumstantial evidence that he intended to conquer a large part of it) and we know this because he would need 2/3 million troops to do so.

He then later says that Putin may/should try and take up to 45% of Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't surrender in time. That, by his own calculations would require 1/1.5 million troops, which he doesn't have.

I didn't find this guy particularly impressive, but I know Andy considers him the number 1 expert on that part of the world, based on what I don't know. I thought he was omitting important information to the point of being downright misleading.

Lex Friedman's laissez faire interview style didn't help. I very much hope he has another podcast lined up with a less pro-Russia / anti NATO guest to compensate for this.

If someone is saying the things you want to hear and agrees with your opinion you are going to find them impressive even if it is a load of rubbish.

[drillerpie]

If someone is saying the things you want to hear and agrees with your opinion you are going to find them impressive even if it is a load of rubbish.

Speak for yourself.

I didn't find him unimpressive because he disagreed with me, I found him unimpressive because he contradicted himself massively in the space of about 20 minutes, among other things.

I am actually capable of appreciating people I don't agree with. I find Nigel Farage an extremely effective and impressive politician even though I disagree with him about a lot of what he says - to give one example.

[i961pie]

Speak for yourself.

I didn't find him unimpressive because he disagreed with me, I found him unimpressive because he contradicted himself massively in the space of about 20 minutes, among other things.

I am actually capable of appreciating people I don't agree with. I find Nigel Farage an extremely effective and impressive politician even though I disagree with him about a lot of what he says - to give one example.

Sorry I was hinting more at Andy not you, he quotes from people to back his views and my point was anyone can find things on the internet that will do that. If you don’t believe man walked on the moon you can find plenty who will agree with you but it doesn’t mean it is right.

[Jampie]

If Putin had no intention of conquering all of Ukraine then attempting to encircle Kyiv was a completely nonsensical move.

I mean, as it is it was just the biggest military blunder in living memory. But attempting it at all makes absolutely no sense if you aren't aiming to replace the Ukrainian government.

And I don't buy the "it's NATO's fault" narrative. Twaddle. What's NATO actually done to Russia?

[drillerpie]

Sorry I was hinting more at Andy not you, he quotes from people to back his views and my point was anyone can find things on the internet that will do that. If you don’t believe man walked on the moon you can find plenty who will agree with you but it doesn’t mean it is right.

Right I see. Well yes I suppose it would be interesting to know why Andy happens to consider him the number one expert on the matter when all the top universities have professors of Russian/Eastern European studies who have learned the languages fluently, immersed themselves in that culture and history and follow things closely there.

It would be interesting to know if he has any credentials or accomplishments that make him objectively the number one, or if it's just because he is pro Russia / anti NATO and fawning over Putin and how wise he is.

[maddogslater]

I don't think so driller, he's trying to put things out there that the narrative doesn't.
I don't know if all what's said by the guy on Lex's interview are biased but it's pretty clear to anyone that nato has reneged on promises and deals since the collapse of the soviet Union.
The Americans would not tolerate anti US communist regime on their borders.
Putin made it clear re ukraine not being in nato, this war is down to US foreign policy in my opinion.

[drillerpie]

I don't think so driller, he's trying to put things out there that the narrative doesn't.
I don't know if all what's said by the guy on Lex's interview are biased but it's pretty clear to anyone that nato has reneged on promises and deals since the collapse of the soviet Union.
The Americans would not tolerate anti US communist regime on their borders.
Putin made it clear re ukraine not being in nato, this war is down to US foreign policy in my opinion.

Hi MDS what makes it clear to anyone?

There are declassified transcripts of phone calls between Clinton and Yeltsin in the 90s in which Yeltsin asks Clinton for this kind of promise and Clinton refuses.

There are also several international treaties Russia signed in the 90s that explicitly state that the newly independent Eastern European countries are sovereign countries who can decide their own future including who to ally with for their security.

This is all available online and I can name them if you want to read them.

On the other points, the USA has an anti US communist regime called Cuba very close to its borders.

I think the podcast was definitely biased. Another example would be when the guest was praising Putin for rescuing Russia and sorting out its economy, and the podcast flashed up a chart of Russian GDP going upwards during Putin's first years in power. What they neglected to say was that was mostly due to huge growth in the oil price around that time rather than anything Putin did.

Putin did indeed make it clear that he didn't want Ukraine in NATO, but it's not his decision to make. Ukraine is an independent sovereign country and not part of Putin's beloved Russian empire any more.