Election Year or Fear!

[swaledale]

the police/ council/social services had no right to ignore, bat away any of these girls. They were minors and not legally responsible for anything.
Their claims WERE ignored out of fear, is ISMS, and community harmony under the flag of multi culturalism. That is a fact. Amazing some of those councillors involved, were in those grooming gangs

Not that old chestnut, yes of course whites are the main child abuses. Simple ratio's of population proves that.
But I don't see any whites getting ignored where justice of grooming is concerned.

BTW, when it comes to grooming gangs, Pakistanis lead the way in the crime charts.

(this is where all the claims racist. xenophobe. little Englamder. bigot etc) would be used for daring to point this out

Justice and law apply to everyone. As recently shown, some in the system, think skin colour/***uality/religious back ground, should get you a softer approach in court.

I'll make an an exception and respond to your ill informed *******s. That is not what's being said and as you would know if you were capable of serious thought, the background of every offender is or should be taken into account when sentencing. And if, as has been shown people of a certain ethnicity are receiving longer prison sentences for the same crimes as other groups, you don't think that's an anomaly that needs correcting? Or do you just respond to racist dog whistles?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'll make an an exception and respond to your ill informed *******s. That is not what's being said and as you would know if you were capable of serious thought, the background of every offender is or should be taken into account when sentencing. And if, as has been shown people of a certain ethnicity are receiving longer prison sentences for the same crimes as other groups, you don't think that's an anomaly that needs correcting? Or do you just respond to racist dog whistles?

You are right that same sentence should apply to same crime regardless of race, gender, age, ***ualuty . but how often are there two identical crimes (and perps) to align in terms of physical, financial and emotional impact on the victim, still less any other aspects such as other crimes to be taken into account, past track records, and of coursethe degree of violence assosciated with the incodent.

My reading of the "informal advice" given to the sentencing board was that it should take into account the -ism associated with the perpetrator - eg give lesser sentneces to a minority perp or one in impoverished circumstances. This was what the minister was railing against. I may be wrong here, but its the imression I got from the Lammy report. This would equally as unacceptable to more severe sentencing for said minorities

[swaledale]

You are right that same sentence should apply to same crime regardless of race, gender, age, ***ualuty . but how often are there two identical crimes (and perps) to align in terms of physical, financial and emotional impact on the victim, still less any other aspects such as other crimes to be taken into account, past track records, and of coursethe degree of violence assosciated with the incodent.

My reading of the "informal advice" given to the sentencing board was that it should take into account the -ism associated with the perpetrator - eg give lesser sentneces to a minority perp or one in impoverished circumstances. This was what the minister was railing against. I may be wrong here, but its the imression I got from the Lammy report. This would equally as unacceptable to more severe sentencing for said minorities

Except it specifically refers to the evidence that those from an ethnic minority background were receiving disproportionately longer sentences than others for the same crime.

The suggestion that as you put it that the -ism should be taken into account and lesser sentences given was not the suggestion. A judge under sentencing guidelines is supposedly required to take account of all circumstances when sentencing.

In terms of identical crimes - that's not what is being said, (by the sentencing council, the Lammy report was 10 years ago) obviously crimes of a similar nature aren't identical, but they can be comparable, there are types of crimes e.g. robbery, assault etc which have guideline sentences, then there are guidelines as to other factors, such as pleading guilty, use of violence, previous record etc. which are taken into account.

Obviously, apart from the simplistic punishment and retribution view, the justice system is however imperfectly trying to balance both punishment, deterrent and rehabilitation.

[ramAnag]

You are right that same sentence should apply to same crime regardless of race, gender, age, ***ualuty . but how often are there two identical crimes (and perps) to align in terms of physical, financial and emotional impact on the victim, still less any other aspects such as other crimes to be taken into account, past track records, and of coursethe degree of violence assosciated with the incodent.

My reading of the "informal advice" given to the sentencing board was that it should take into account the -ism associated with the perpetrator - eg give lesser sentneces to a minority perp or one in impoverished circumstances. This was what the minister was railing against. I may be wrong here, but its the imression I got from the Lammy report. This would equally as unacceptable to more severe sentencing for said minorities

I think, GP, that there is some confusion over this issue. Some of it, as in yours and mine, genuine and some more contrived and malicious, put about by those who want to perpetuate the infantile ‘two tier Kier’ jibe.

The question, imo, seems to revolve around the need for PSRs (pre-sentence reports) which have been identified as necessary for a range of people including those fitting the description of ethnic minority, cultural minority, faith minority, transgender, pregnant, post natal, primary carer for dependent relatives, victims of trafficking, victims of and those at risk of further domestic abuse.

It’s easy to see how the first four at least are likely to set off the two tier Kier brigade and others on the Right who rarely look at things beyond the most superficial level and I agree that greater clarification is necessary.

Having acknowledged that we also, again imo, have to recognise that we already have a two tier justice system and have done for years. There is a disproportionate level of incarceration as far as non-whites and poor people are concerned. The inequalities of the prison/justice systems is something Dickens was writing about well over 150 years ago but, much more recently a Cardiff University study identified that the imprisonment rate for the ten most deprived areas of England is ten times that of the ten least deprived areas of the country. Probably no great surprise. Certainly an example of a two tier system I would suggest.