O/T Labours cunning plan - again !!

[Stansmate]

Wake up guys - the boats and cost of will not stop or be sorted unless the law changes.

The huge issues as a result of this mass stupidity has resulted in a transformation of Britain and even those who came here legally are agreeing.

Only Farage has the bottle to challenge this and millions agreee with his stance - will he do it ??? Who knows but get real , the cost and impact is beyond belief .


UTM

[animallittle3]

Yep, no easy wins for the PM on this. I am far from convinced that any voters who see the immigration issue as being the most pressing issue we face, and therefore very likely to be buying into Reform already, will listen to Starmer's rhetoric on this, and switch back to Labour? Why wouldn't they stay with someone who appears more convincing on it? (even if I suspect Farage's stance is animatedly trying to win power to do a run on the economy in true disaster capitalism stylie that will make him and his backers more fortunes - surely he knows that turning boats back towards France is illegal and won't work - and there are certainly no other ideas from him I've heard!)

Many on the left of the Labour party already are despairing, and perhaps leaving room for the radical upheaval in strategy from the Green party proposed by Zack Polanski who wants the party to emulate Reform's insurgency on the right but trying to capture the mass of voters that swung to Corbyn in 2017 but were then lost in the ensuing melee as Corbyn's leadership fell apart afterwards. I think the huge numbers here have had no logical home and have just supported Starmer as a means to get the Tories out. Definately a space there for a radical alternative from a left point of view, but no idea about Polanski as a person/potential credible leader. Be interesting if the current 2 party set up can be challenged at both sides and what such a movement could draw in terms of numbers to challenge them all.

As it stands, if it stays the same, I can only think that one again, these masses will default to Labour just to make sure Farage doesn't get the opportunity to take over, but such a split could of course enable Farage. But there are certainly masses of voters on the further left of Starmer that could possibly buy into an insurgent left movement if Starmer's approach doesn't have the tangible positive impact on the economy and services.

What escapes the metropolitan liberal class is that many people and this actually includes Farage and Reform aren't against immigration , they are against mass immigration and there's a world of difference between the two .

Immigration after the second world war right up to Blair's tenure made a massive contribution to this country but over the last 20 years instead of immigration contributing to economic growth it's now way too dependent on it and it's simply not sustainable .

You could argue that given the economy hasn't grown too much possibly since the financial crash , mass immigration isn't growing the economy as well as many people would like you to believe .

There's a debate to be had about migrants taking lower paid work and the amount of dependants they bring with them , a recent study I read a few months ago by the Office For Budget Responsibility stated that it actually creates a cost to the taxpayer .
Every business wants cheap labour , I get it but at what cost ? .

Looks a bit like socialism to me which is ironic given the Tories were practically addicted to cheap immigrant labour and yet spent the 80's and 90's crushing socialism .

The current Labour Party if we are to still call them that are simply making it up as they go along , no real policies , no vision and a PM who simply looks out of the window each morning looking for the most favourable wind .

If by increasing immigration to 2 million a year would win him the next election he'd probably do that too , the man is devoid of any principles or convictions other than to pick on those not best placed to fight back , at least Thatcher had a pair and took on the big guns whether you agreed with her or not .

Little wonder Reform are gaining strength , the uniparty status quo and the political answer to Laurel and Hardy gave Farage a good leg up .

[frogmiller]

Don?t forget that these unfortunate young men will be reunited with their loved ones, wives and kids in the not to distant future.

Thankfully the men will be using their degrees and skills to make Britain a better place.

The hospital projects , the new schools and infrastructure won?t build itself.

What a marvellous future is in store.

Exciting isn?t it.

[ragingpup]

What escapes the metropolitan liberal class is that many people and this actually includes Farage and Reform aren't against immigration , they are against mass immigration and there's a world of difference between the two .

Immigration after the second world war right up to Blair's tenure made a massive contribution to this country but over the last 20 years instead of immigration contributing to economic growth it's now way too dependent on it and it's simply not sustainable .

You could argue that given the economy hasn't grown too much possibly since the financial crash , mass immigration isn't growing the economy as well as many people would like you to believe .

There's a debate to be had about migrants taking lower paid work and the amount of dependants they bring with them , a recent study I read a few months ago by the Office For Budget Responsibility stated that it actually creates a cost to the taxpayer .
Every business wants cheap labour , I get it but at what cost ? .

Looks a bit like socialism to me which is ironic given the Tories were practically addicted to cheap immigrant labour and yet spent the 80's and 90's crushing socialism .

The current Labour Party if we are to still call them that are simply making it up as they go along , no real policies , no vision and a PM who simply looks out of the window each morning looking for the most favourable wind .

If by increasing immigration to 2 million a year would win him the next election he'd probably do that too , the man is devoid of any principles or convictions other than to pick on those not best placed to fight back , at least Thatcher had a pair and took on the big guns whether you agreed with her or not .

Little wonder Reform are gaining strength , the uniparty status quo and the political answer to Laurel and Hardy gave Farage a good leg up .

Good points as ever animal.

Re your points on low paid workers, there was an interesting appearance from a care home leader on Politics Live yesterday and she was stressing to the panel that she would love to employ uk workers but with something like 100k vacancies in the care sector, she can't get them in with the work being super low paid but actually quite highly skilled. Interesting that of all places Starmer should choose to stay there!

But if you have a problem with immigrants taking these essential jobs, what do you suggest we do as a fix? What would you say to the care home leaders? You could stop them from bringing their dependents with them. Fine. But then even less would fill the positions. What do you tell the care home leaders then?

(You could of course substitute care home workers for any other low paid job. It's just that this is the sector Starmer has chosen)

Not sure how you equate this all to socialism by the way? How?! Just looks like a badly thought through and executed economic system devised through centuries by the rich and powerful and accelerated in the last 50 years by capitalism on acid is just struggling from falling into armageddon and we'd all be a lot worse off without being propped up in essential areas by immigrant workers. We'd probably agree that a complete systemic rethink is required . And one with think a party called Reform would be well placed to do that. But Farage isn't the least bit interested in the prosperity of average working people, a clue being his vocal approval of Truss's mini budget and what that did to our mortgages!

[animallittle3]

Good points as ever animal.

Re your points on low paid workers, there was an interesting appearance from a care home leader on Politics Live yesterday and she was stressing to the panel that she would love to employ uk workers but with something like 100k vacancies in the care sector, she can't get them in with the work being super low paid but actually quite highly skilled. Interesting that of all places Starmer should choose to stay there!

But if you have a problem with immigrants taking these essential jobs, what do you suggest we do as a fix? What would you say to the care home leaders? You could stop them from bringing their dependents with them. Fine. But then even less would fill the positions. What do you tell the care home leaders then?

(You could of course substitute care home workers for any other low paid job. It's just that this is the sector Starmer has chosen)

Not sure how you equate this all to socialism by the way? How?! Just looks like a badly thought through and executed economic system devised through centuries by the rich and powerful and accelerated in the last 50 years by capitalism on acid is just struggling from falling into armageddon and we'd all be a lot worse off without being propped up in essential areas by immigrant workers. We'd probably agree that a complete systemic rethink is required . And one with think a party called Reform would be well placed to do that. But Farage isn't the least bit interested in the prosperity of average working people, a clue being his vocal approval of Truss's mini budget and what that did to our mortgages!

I had my Mrs Thatcher hat on raging , God forbid .

The consensus in the 80's was that if industries were becoming a burden to the taxpayer then they were deemed to be waste , un-economical .

If some sectors can't fill vacancies and are reliant on migrant cheap Labour which coupled with their dependents they bring with them creates a financial negative , they take out more than they contribute factoring everything in , then if that shortfall is met by the rest of the taxpaying population then that's the kind of economics the government of the 80's and most of the 90's found abhorrent .

Socialism is great until you run out of somebody else's money , remember that line .

I take the point it was nationalised industries that were attacked in the 80's but it still amounts to the same thing with cheap migrant labour plus their dependants .

Perhaps they should be a National Union Of Care Workers that every care worker in the UK was a member of and perhaps they should elect a leader who was formidable and gained them greatly increased pay and conditions .

Perhaps migrant labour wouldn't be so attractive then .

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

I had my Mrs Thatcher hat on raging , God forbid .

The consensus in the 80's was that if industries were becoming a burden to the taxpayer then they were deemed to be waste , un-economical .

If some sectors can't fill vacancies and are reliant on migrant cheap Labour which coupled with their dependents they bring with them creates a financial negative , they take out more than they contribute factoring everything in , then if that shortfall is met by the rest of the taxpaying population then that's the kind of economics the government of the 80's and most of the 90's found abhorrent .

Socialism is great until you run out of somebody else's money , remember that line .

I take the point it was nationalised industries that were attacked in the 80's but it still amounts to the same thing with cheap migrant labour plus their dependants .

Perhaps they should be a National Union Of Care Workers that every care worker in the UK was a member of and perhaps they should elect a leader who was formidable and gained them greatly increased pay and conditions .

Perhaps migrant labour wouldn't be so attractive then .

Migrant labour rarely join unions, that?s why Unions are failing

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Britain where the white population “found themselves made strangers in their own country”. Enoch Powell 1968

“The best way to avoid becoming an ‘island of strangers’ is investing in communities to thrive - Kier Starmer 2025

Four legs good, two legs bad?

[Stansmate]

And now a 21 yr old Ukrainian charged with the PM arson attacks !!

I thought we were on their side ????

[MillerBill]

Nothing cunning about being turned down by Albania, to take these illegal migrants.What preperation was made before this meeting,thinking that a deal could be made?This is a complete mess by a calamitous,callous,corrupt,clueless shower that is running this country.We were promised so much but it's turned out to be all lies.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

And now a 21 yr old Ukrainian charged with the PM arson attacks !!

I thought we were on their side ????

I don?t think they were ever asked