Lee Clark

[mygiddypant]

Morning TLC. Thing is though IF he's given the job and task of making things happen again, he will probably have the biggest clean slate to start with any Manager has had in years at ours. Then he can show us what he wants and will deliver, in order to makes us smile again.

He will be given the job, partly because there's no energy or enthusiasm at the top for more disruption.

Clarke will have a partial "clean slate", and the opportunity to rebuild in his own fashion, just like previous managers.

If, after two months we are not near the top of the league he will start to attract attraction from the usual suspects.

[ragingpup]

I agree with what Clark says on the interview. Players have to do extra to make sure they are at top physical strength. Look at Ronaldo. I?m not saying they will ever be as good as him but surely they aspire to be the best in league one or league two. Do some work on your leg muscles lads. You don?t have to be on the training ground to do it. Do it at home, in your garage.

I don?t know whether Lee Clark will be doing the job next season but I think he is fighting a losing battle with the players that all the previous managers have brought in.

Only my opinion, but it is the manager's (all of them!) as well as fitness and coaching staff to make sure that the players are physically strong and in the right conditi!on. They work for and are paid quite well by the club and the club staff should be doing whatever is needed in working time to make sure that the players build strangth and conditioning. I'm quite shocked by Clark and fans seeming to indicate that it is all on the players. Players are humans and if allowed an easier path by their managers, many will choose the easy path. You'll get this in any poorly run business.

Clark may well be correct in what he has found but the fault for that surely lays witth the previous managers aand culture of the club. To blame the players entrely is 1) pointing the responsibility elsewhere from where it should be and 2) will likely cause un undesirable response from the players you do have, especially those who are doing everything they can for the Millers. I find it quite worrying that Clark seems to come at things from this position of helplessness and heaping responsibility on the players, especially if he is being considered beyond the end of the season.

I'd me much more encouraged if he's have said words to the effect of "Yes, I can see now what is happening, a culture has developed where the fitness and conditioning of the players has been under developed and is the main cause of so many injuries. But I know what needs to be done and going forward (if employed for next season) we need to develop X programmes for the players, fitness and conditioning plans that will address this". These would be easy words for anyone to say of course, and the proof of the pudding would be in time whether he can produce results based on his diagnosis, but I'd be more reassured if he was going down these lines instead of heaping it all on the players.

Not saying the players don't have a big responsibility for their diet and lifestyle, but the club management should always be responsible for directing and monitorig them to stay within the conditioning levels that they want to see.

[Back of the net]

Only my opinion, but it is the manager's (all of them!) as well as fitness and coaching staff to make sure that the players are physically strong and in the right conditi!on. They work for and are paid quite well by the club and the club staff should be doing whatever is needed in working time to make sure that the players build strangth and conditioning. I'm quite shocked by Clark and fans seeming to indicate that it is all on the players. Players are humans and if allowed an easier path by their managers, many will choose the easy path. You'll get this in any poorly run business.

Clark may well be correct in what he has found but the fault for that surely lays witth the previous managers aand culture of the club. To blame the players entrely is 1) pointing the responsibility elsewhere from where it should be and 2) will likely cause un undesirable response from the players you do have, especially those who are doing everything they can for the Millers. I find it quite worrying that Clark seems to come at things from this position of helplessness and heaping responsibility on the players, especially if he is being considered beyond the end of the season.

I'd me much more encouraged if he's have said words to the effect of "Yes, I can see now what is happening, a culture has developed where the fitness and conditioning of the players has been under developed and is the main cause of so many injuries. But I know what needs to be done and going forward (if employed for next season) we need to develop X programmes for the players, fitness and conditioning plans that will address this". These would be easy words for anyone to say of course, and the proof of the pudding would be in time whether he can produce results based on his diagnosis, but I'd be more reassured if he was going down these lines instead of heaping it all on the players.

Not saying the players don't have a big responsibility for their diet and lifestyle, but the club management should always be responsible for directing and monitorig them to stay within the conditioning levels that they want to see.

There are clearly issues with the club and I agree there are accountability issues around this in terms of the medical department etc.

I agree with Clark though the it’s a fundamental requirement for the players to prepare as good as they can.
They aren’t doing that and not tracking back and running isn’t fitness issue it’s a mentality one. Against Barnsley some players gave in. That’s shocking and unacceptable. Lazy and entitled is right imo.
Get them all gone they should be embarrassed.

[ragingpup]

There are clearly issues with the club and I agree there are accountability issues around this in terms of the medical department etc.

I agree with Clark though the it’s a fundamental requirement for the players to prepare as good as they can.
They aren’t doing that and not tracking back and running isn’t fitness issue it’s a mentality one. Against Barnsley some players gave in. That’s shocking and unacceptable. Lazy and entitled is right imo.
Get them all gone they should be embarrassed.

For me, its accountability only with the manager and his staff. No decent manager of people just squawks to other people about poor performance from the people they are paid to manage. If players aren't performing on a daily basis as you want them to perform, you deal with that directly with the player and in most cases an excellent person manager will get great results from their staff. Poor managers will get poor results. No one else is responsible, and am worried that Clark feels that his players are.

[Shark27]

Only my opinion, but it is the manager's (all of them!) as well as fitness and coaching staff to make sure that the players are physically strong and in the right conditi!on. They work for and are paid quite well by the club and the club staff should be doing whatever is needed in working time to make sure that the players build strangth and conditioning. I'm quite shocked by Clark and fans seeming to indicate that it is all on the players. Players are humans and if allowed an easier path by their managers, many will choose the easy path. You'll get this in any poorly run business.

Clark may well be correct in what he has found but the fault for that surely lays witth the previous managers aand culture of the club. To blame the players entrely is 1) pointing the responsibility elsewhere from where it should be and 2) will likely cause un undesirable response from the players you do have, especially those who are doing everything they can for the Millers. I find it quite worrying that Clark seems to come at things from this position of helplessness and heaping responsibility on the players, especially if he is being considered beyond the end of the season.

I'd me much more encouraged if he's have said words to the effect of "Yes, I can see now what is happening, a culture has developed where the fitness and conditioning of the players has been under developed and is the main cause of so many injuries. But I know what needs to be done and going forward (if employed for next season) we need to develop X programmes for the players, fitness and conditioning plans that will address this". These would be easy words for anyone to say of course, and the proof of the pudding would be in time whether he can produce results based on his diagnosis, but I'd be more reassured if he was going down these lines instead of heaping it all on the players.

Not saying the players don't have a big responsibility for their diet and lifestyle, but the club management should always be responsible for directing and monitorig them to stay within the conditioning levels that they want to see.

In effect Clark is telling them to do more. I?m sure they have strengthening exercises that they can follow. There is only so much they can do in the hours they have at the training ground. Just as they have to eat responsibly, they also have the responsibility to try and stay as strong as possible.

I?m sure you do extra planning and research for your job in your spare time just for your own personal development if anything. Footballers are paid very well and should be doing this anyway. If they are doing it and are that easily injured then I would say they are in the wrong job (or not considering they then get paid for doing very little). If they aren?t doing everything they can to stay as fit as possible, and let?s be honest, they haven?t got talent alone to rely on, then they will struggle.

If I was invited to play in a friendly 11 a side match at NYS during pre season I would try and be as ready as possible and that?s not even getting paid for it.

[Back of the net]

For me, its accountability only with the manager and his staff. No decent manager of people just squawks to other people about poor performance from the people they are paid to manage. If players aren't performing on a daily basis as you want them to perform, you deal with that directly with the player and in most cases an excellent person manager will get great results from their staff. Poor managers will get poor results. No one else is responsible, and am worried that Clark feels that his players are.

Warnock, Jose M, Daglish to name a few over the years called players out. Are you saying these weren’t decent managers ?
He’s been here two minutes and is saying what supporters who go to games have been saying for a long time.
Are you saying those supporters who go to games and the person most close to this is wrong too?
MH alluded to some of the players not putting it in and poor injury record was he wrong too?

[ragingpup]

Warnock, Jose M, Daglish to name a few over the years called players out. Are you saying these weren’t decent managers ?
He’s been here two minutes and is saying what supporters who go to games have been saying for a long time.
Are you saying those supporters who go to games and the person most close to this is wrong too?
MH alluded to some of the players not putting it in and poor injury record was he wrong too?

I'm saying that a good manager sets the expectations, guides players on what they need to do in and out of club time monitors their fitness levels and conditioning and importantly intervenes if they are not at the levels you have clearly communicated you are looking for. This includes calling them out if they are repeatedly not responding and this is what Warnock et al have done.

The difference I am trying to get over here is that Clarke is clearly identifying a cultural issue (ie. its systematic, affecting many players) and whilst players have to take their share of responsibility if they are letting standards drop, it is the same in any walk of life that if 1) standards aren't clearly communicated 2) standards are clearly monitored 3) actions are quickly taken if standards are not upheld, it is the nature of people (whether we like it or not) that they will fall below the standards required for a role.

I'm not saying that supporters or anyone is wrong, I'm actually agreeing with them/you. But we are identifying the outcome, systematic poor performance in job roles. What were disagreeing in is the root cause for that. And I would argue that until we get an excellent manager (not easy to find, were talking about very highly levels of performance at this level of pro sport with lots of complexities) who realises that it is their responsibility for the culture and for player's performance in their roles, we are likely to see the same outcomes over and over. We can blame this group of players all you like and get in another bunch, but without the above standards being monitored and reinforced by good man management, the next bunch will likely repeat the same outcomes.

[Back of the net]

I'm saying that a good manager sets the expectations, guides players on what they need to do in and out of club time monitors their fitness levels and conditioning and importantly intervenes if they are not at the levels you have clearly communicated you are looking for. This includes calling them out if they are repeatedly not responding and this is what Warnock et al have done.

The difference I am trying to get over here is that Clarke is clearly identifying a cultural issue (ie. its systematic, affecting many players) and whilst players have to take their share of responsibility if they are letting standards drop, it is the same in any walk of life that if 1) standards aren't clearly communicated 2) standards are clearly monitored 3) actions are quickly taken if standards are not upheld, it is the nature of people (whether we like it or not) that they will fall below the standards required for a role.

I'm not saying that supporters or anyone is wrong, I'm actually agreeing with them/you. But we are identifying the outcome, systematic poor performance in job roles. What we?re disagreeing in is the root cause for that. And I would argue that until we get an excellent manager (not easy to find, were talking about very highly levels of performance at this level of pro sport with lots of complexities) who realises that it is their responsibility for the culture and for player's performance in their roles, we are likely to see the same outcomes over and over. We can blame this group of players all you like and get in another bunch, but without the above standards being monitored and reinforced by good man management, the next bunch will likely repeat the same outcomes.

Makes perfect sense raging what you have written. He?s been here 2 minutes though so imo you are being too harsh with your views on him.
I?m not sure if he?s the man long term but he?s correct to call them out imo.

[ragingpup]

Makes perfect sense raging what you have written. He?s been here 2 minutes though so imo you are being too harsh with your views on him.
I?m not sure if he?s the man long term but he?s correct to call them out imo.

To be absolutely clear, I am not judging Clarke - as you say he's only been here 3 weeks and any manager would need longer than that to make an impact. My only worry (and it is a very big worry) is that Clarke is pointing the finger of responsibility completely at the players when to me, the large numbers of people failing to meet the basics of their job description as professional atheletes is a cultural one, and management are fully responsible for the culture and performance of the staff. I'd be more reassured if he was highlighting that.

Maybe he doesn't feel he can? Maybe the culture of poor performance is coming from above the management team, but Warne showed that in the context of our senior management culture, a team manager could manage the staff and players to achieve probably to the max of their capabilities.

[ilikecarling]

If anyone says we haven’t got worse under Clarke they are talking absolute garbage. We couldn’t defend under Hamshaw but now we can’t defend or look threatening going forward under Clarke. 1 goal in 4 and a half games and that was a 90th minute penalty. Going down without so much as a whimper. May as well have left Hamshaw in charge until the end of the season as Clarke has brought nothing apart from a few digs at the players. Hopefully he’s not here next season.