O/T And we wonder why we trust Starmer

[ragingpup]

Maybe we would have an answer to that had we asked the Ukrainians their opinions in the first place. Maybe many were happy being connected to Russia and not the wonderful west?

But we are fed the company line and we all join in with the company song with chicken keeevs on the buffet

The people of Ukraine were asked their opinions on their relationship to Russia in 1991 with a full national referendum. 85% of Ukrainian people turned out to vote and 92% of those voted for the Ukraine to become an independent state, seperate from Russia.

So again, what do you think is Russia's motive for invading Ukraine? I can't believe that to have such strong opinions that we in the west are all communally and unquestionably following anti-Russian propaganda, but can't have a clear answer and evidence of to explain why Russia are justified in carrying out this invasion?

[ragingpup]

I have no evidence of what happened in any meetings or negotiations from any party which is exactly your possition! We can only go on what was said at the time 3 years ago.
Putin didn't like the Orange revolution? or the way America interfered with the elections? The faulse promise by the EU to fast line the mebership of the Ukraine. Maybe he wanted a buffer between Russia and NATO and didn't want NATO bases on his border.

There are many reasons why Putin could have been upset!

What is your opinion on why the war should keep going?

My opinion on why the war should keep going is because Russia has invaded an independent sovereign country. The same as if France invaded the UK and occupied Kent. So you would just negotiate and be happy to let them keep Kent as long as they stopped fighting?

Do you think it is justifiable then that Putin, out of dislike for the orange revolution, internal political struggles in Ukraine or Ukraine's move for NATO membership, as well as those of it's neighbours Finland and Sweden, is entitled to actually invade another country? He is absolutely justified to be angry about it, be fearful of the US who we all know have acted appalingly on many international stages (I was brought up on Pilger and Chomsky, doesn't mean I completely agree with all they say), but the crux is that Ukraine is an independent operator and is entitled to make her own choices surely?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The people of Ukraine were asked their opinions on their relationship to Russia in 1991 with a full national referendum. 85% of Ukrainian people turned out to vote and 92% of those voted for the Ukraine to become an independent state, seperate from Russia.

So again, what do you think is Russia's motive for invading Ukraine? I can't believe that to have such strong opinions that we in the west are all communally and unquestionably following anti-Russian propaganda, but can't have a clear answer and evidence of to explain why Russia are justified in carrying out this invasion?

All you?ve given me is more propaganda suitable to the west, perhaps no such referendum happened or if it did it was pro Russia?

[frogmiller]

My opinion on why the war should keep going is because Russia has invaded an independent sovereign country. The same as if France invaded the UK and occupied Kent. So you would just negotiate and be happy to let them keep Kent as long as they stopped fighting?

Do you think it is justifiable then that Putin, out of dislike for the orange revolution, internal political struggles in Ukraine or Ukraine's move for NATO membership, as well as those of it's neighbours Finland and Sweden, is entitled to actually invade another country? He is absolutely justified to be angry about it, be fearful of the US who we all know have acted appalingly on many international stages (I was brought up on Pilger and Chomsky, doesn't mean I completely agree with all they say), but the crux is that Ukraine is an independent operator and is entitled to make her own choices surely?

I gave you a list of things that may have upset Putin.

Who do you think runs the Ukraine now? Has sovereign land been sold off?

[frogmiller]

I thought the left were anti war 😂

[frogmiller]

Do you think that Starmer should put British boots on the ground ragingpup or should I say anymore boots on the ground.

[UlleyMiller]

I'm glad you lot aren't negotiating the end of anything.... definitely no end in sight!

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Do you think that Starmer should put British boots on the ground ragingpup or should I say anymore boots on the ground.

We have no firkin boots and sending a gunboat up the river went out with Queen Victoria. The MoD is a mess

[frogmiller]

I'm glad you lot aren't negotiating the end of anything.... definitely no end in sight!

You can?t negotiate opinions Ulley. Opinions are like arse holes, we all have them and act like them sometimes.

[frogmiller]

We have no firkin boots and sending a gunboat up the river went out with Queen Victoria. The MoD is a mess

Heavily invested in technology and not people.