O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[upthemaggies]

This thread is very interesting, even to a greater or lesser degree disturbing.

Appreciate this Swale, and yes it is disturbing.

[maddogslater]

The Neil Oliver talk is wonderful, so sick of all the hype propaganda BS, I don’t need posters plastered on every lamp post telling me to not go for walk or stay safe (like in NZ living in a box behind the sofa) guilt trip 'protect the NHS' spot on Neil , well said and well put UTMs

[jackal2]

The Neil Oliver talk is wonderful, so sick of all the hype propaganda BS, I don’t need posters plastered on every lamp post telling me to not go for walk or stay safe (like in NZ living in a box behind the sofa) guilt trip 'protect the NHS' spot on Neil , well said and well put UTMs

National leaders should practice what they preach, but it's even more important that they believe what they preach. Clearly a fair few in Government circles do not believe Covid is as dangerous to them as they publicly portray it to be, otherwise they wouldn't be acting in such a nonchalant way when they think they're away from the camera. The policies you recommend to the public should be the ones you believe in yourself, and if behind closed doors your actions show you don't actually believe what you're saying, don't say it. Your judgement may prove to be right or wrong, but at least your public messaging will then be sincere and you won't get continually called out for hypocrisy.

[upthemaggies]

National leaders should practice what they preach, but it's even more important that they believe what they preach. Clearly a fair few in Government circles do not believe Covid is as dangerous to them as they publicly portray it to be, otherwise they wouldn't be acting in such a nonchalant way when they think they're away from the camera. The policies you recommend to the public should be the ones you believe in yourself, and if behind closed doors your actions show you don't actually believe what you're saying, don't say it. Your judgement may prove to be right or wrong, but at least your public messaging will then be sincere and you won't get continually called out for hypocrisy.

100%. I think their actions do give weight to the belief that none (or very few) of them have actually had this vaccine either.

[jackal2]

100%. I think their actions do give weight to the belief that none (or very few) of them have actually had this vaccine either.

My guess is that most of them have been double or treble vaccinated and they feel sufficiently safe to carry on pretty much as normal. If that's the case, then allow the rest of the country to decide for themselves if they want to do the same. Time will tell who's right or wrong, but at least the leadership's public message and private actions would be consistent.

[Elite_Pie]

National leaders should practice what they preach, but it's even more important that they believe what they preach. Clearly a fair few in Government circles do not believe Covid is as dangerous to them as they publicly portray it to be, otherwise they wouldn't be acting in such a nonchalant way when they think they're away from the camera.

Two possibilities there:

1. They don't really believe it.
2. They are such utter sleazebags and hypocrites that they think the rules are for us and not for them.

Hopefully the voters in North Shropshire on Thursday will join me in picking the second option.

[jackal2]

Two possibilities there:

1. They don't really believe it.
2. They are such utter hypocrites that they think the rules are for us and not for them.

Both points amount to the same thing in my opinion.

There are certainly a significant number amongst the current political elite who think their job is to preach one message to the public while thinking and doing another thing in private.

Obviously, when you're in Government setting the rules and you get found out, you get the most criticism, and rightly so, but this contagion isn't limited to the Conservative Party. There are plenty on the Labour side and on other sides who would and have contradicted their own public messaging by their own private actions.

We now have a generation of career politicians - across the political spectrum - who lack core ideology or sincerity. They think they are there to market a message, which can be changed opportunistically in response to public opinion, rather than seeking to implement a heartfelt, core set of beliefs. This is why the public have lost so much faith in the political class in general.

Fortunately, there are still some ideologically-committed and sincere politicians around, mostly on the back benches, but they seem to be smaller in number then they once were.

[upthemaggies]

The creator of the technology for the mRNA vaccines has made a statement to parents today.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGgIaNOW...pg&name=medium

There is also a video of him reading the statement here.....
https://twitter.com/DrNoMask/status/1470473459205652486

[magpie_mania]

I notice you don't disagree with the premise in my previous post, so that's a positive.

Firstly, those Omicron numbers are tiny so aren't meaningful in terms of being able to form any conclusions.

Secondly, we've been over this previously, but the huge majority of people are double vaccinated in the US. Say for example 90 people are vaccinated and 10 aren't. If there are 5 cases, and 'most' were vaccinated, so let's say 3 people, then it's 3 in 90. The 2 remaining cases are 2 in 10. Which group had a higher rate of infection?

We know protection wanes (no-one is disagreeing on that point) and also that this is a new variant. We don't know when the infected people received their booster (eg I've had mine, but it's still too soon to be fully effective) so that could be a factor. We also know that because it is a new variant, the protection with current vaccines is circa 70 - 75% post booster.

However you want to dress it up, vaccination, and particularly boosters, reduce the chance of transmission, infection, hospitalisation and death. If you can find me any peer reviewed published evidence that says otherwise, I'd love to see it.

Thanks for making the maths clear Cher. I absolutely get that some might not want to get the vaccine, but cannot see how your final paragraph can be anything other than correct.

I have asked a couple of times now how the fall in deaths and hospitalization at the same time as the number of people vaccinated increased can be explained, apart from that vaccines work. Surely it's not coincidence?

[cher1]

I don't want to get into a he says, she says, but Malone himself states he invented the vaccine. He didn't, he was one of a huge number of people involved in research. There's lots about his outlandish claim on the net, but this is the shortest, clearest piece
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd

There have been a tiny number of deaths associated with the AZ vaccine. That's absolutely awful, but sadly any medical intervention carries a risk - look at the side effects and contradications on the fact sheet in a paracetamol packet for example.

The fact remains that covid vaccinations have saved millions of lives around the world and it simply isn't true to say it doesn't work.