O/T Democracy

[Shark27]

I think just about everyone understand the expression 'knife in the back' is not meant literally, but take your point that someone with mental health problems might get the wrong end of the stick.

For my part, I think Johnson's responses to comments about Jo Cox were ill judged, but I dare say most people's judgments might be a little off if they had flown in from the USA and then faced several hours of people screaming at him, some of whom are now leading the 'holier than thou' charge.

I have no time for the people who are upset about the use of 'Surrender Act'. Again, the self-same people had no problem using the expression ‘Dementia’ Tax ' two years ago. And, in negotiating terms, it is an act of surrender.

To be honest I think all the pretend outrage that was coming from parliament the other day was ridiculous.

[ragingpup]

Give it a rest with the 'your media' style snipes, lover. It's neither big nor clever and says far more about you than me.

I'm sure the Mail and Sun would put the boot in on any new Labour leader, in much the same way that The Mirror and The Guardian would laud them as the second coming. The Daily Star would be more interested in who was shagging whom on Strictly Come Dancing.

I have no idea who else would make a good Labour leader. The current Labour machine only trusts a handful of MPs to appear on TV and radio. I'm sure that there is talent on the Labour backbenches, but we won't get to see it, however.

I know Keir Starmer reasonably well, but am not sure where I stand on him. We never really talked politics and we only see the Brexit side of him at the moment. The fact that he once resigned from the shadow cabinet because of Corbyn bodes well.

Lol. Just the Mail and the Sun? To quote Biggie "What planet are you on?"!!

What about:

The Express
The Telegraph
The Times
Standard

???

The Guardian would only be happy with a centre left leader. They hate Corbyn. Always have.

That's 80% of the Mass media readership (in % terms of people that access newspapers in print and online)

But yes, we do have The Mirror! Huzzah!

[BigLadonOS]

That's not two faced, biggie . It's exactly the opposite. Corbyn might actually get somewhere if he listened to the likes of her instead of surrounding himself with political clones and a load of Student Union debating society sycophants.

Inflammatory language is inflammatory language weather it is meant literally or not. You cannot go round accusing people of doing something that tries to make you out as whiter than white while all the time you are as guilty as that person yourself.

Just as a side note, the phrase is now and always has been "stabbed in the back/stab him/her in the back" and knife him in the back is an exaggerated phrase to deliver maximum impact.

[BigLadonOS]

For my part, I think Johnson's responses to comments about Jo Cox were ill judged, but I dare say most people's judgments might be a little off if they had flown in from the USA and then faced several hours of people screaming at him, some of whom are now leading the 'holier than thou' charge.

On an earlier exchange I was saying that people make a call on what is written down and can read it one way while all the time the writer meant it another. This is one of those odd times where the spoken word can also be down to how a person reads in to what is being said. I think Boris was saying that Jo Cox, who believed in democracy would not have been happy with how things stand today and her memory should not be used in an attempt to block democracy but to honour it instead.

[howdydoo]

Not sure we should be playing dare with the short / medium term future of the country and the businesses that will suffer.

Playing a poker tournament with your cards facing up each hand!

Not sure that's a great tactic either.

[WanChaiMiller]

Playing a poker tournament with your cards facing up each hand!

Not sure that's a great tactic either.

I dont see it as a game of poker. But not sure Id want Johnson to play my hand.

[tony260674]

On an earlier exchange I was saying that people make a call on what is written down and can read it one way while all the time the writer meant it another. This is one of those odd times where the spoken word can also be down to how a person reads in to what is being said. I think Boris was saying that Jo Cox, who believed in democracy would not have been happy with how things stand today and her memory should not be used in an attempt to block democracy but to honour it instead.

**** me that's a stretch and I don't believe you could possibly think that.
I feel sorry for Boris I really do, he has finally got the gig he has always wanted but he has inherited a total ****storm that he is not qualified to deal with. He has become obsessed with following Cummings who knows **** all about running a country, has no allegiances to anything but is an expert in the politics of division and that is what we are left with. His methods are straight out of the Trump playbook of playing to the furthest faction of your base and alienating the other side.
This whole issue was always one that could have been settled by a great British compromise. It is what this country has always been good at. There was a vote and we need to respect the result whether we liked it or not, but it was very close and caused friction within the country. At this point it would have been possible to find a compromise, probably along the lines of leaving the EU, getting rid of the political institutions but keeping some of the economic institutions in order to avoid the potential crash to the economy, reassure the markets and give us time to solve the Irish question. This would have meant that all options would have been open for the medium and long term and had the added advantage of being what the large majority of the leave campaigners were selling during the campaign. The large majority of the country would have been satisfied and it would have marginalized the extremists at both ends who are never going to get what they want as their options are unpalatable to so many. We could then have got on with arguing about the important things in our daily lives such as sorting out our unbalanced economy, what we want for the NHS for the next generation, reducing crime/drugs on our streets, the list in endless.
Blaming parliament for our problems is ridiculous because when we leave the EU, Parliament is what we are left with. The leaders of the 2 main parties have been weak all the way through and I am convinced that had we had sensible and strong leaders on each side, this compromise would have been reached 2 years ago.
I am now left in a political no mans land. I certainly don't want a no deal but I think we should respect the referendum result. I would never vote Tory as I simply agree with almost nothing they do, I can't vote for Corbyn as although I certainly don't believe all the shyte in the newspapers, his ideas are far too left leaning for me and I can't vote Lib Dem as they are advocating ignoring the referendum which doesn't sit well either.
Thus WILL get worse before it gets better.

[great_fire]

Lol. Just the Mail and the Sun? To quote Biggie "What planet are you on?"!!

What about:

The Express
The Telegraph
The Times
Standard

???

The Guardian would only be happy with a centre left leader. They hate Corbyn. Always have.

That's 80% of the Mass media readership (in % terms of people that access newspapers in print and online)

But yes, we do have The Mirror! Huzzah!

It's 2019, most people get their news from the internet and the TV, almost all of those sources are left-leaning.

Stop living in the past, newspapers have very little influence now.

[WanChaiMiller]

Yes and that's what we're intending to do Wanchai.
Leaving the shackles of the EU certainly is a much better deal than being a full member of the EU.
So they're only delivering what they said they would do

This is how I see it Flour. If Brexit were to be seen as a political philosophy it has not got unifying party to drive it forward. Brexit is a cross party ideology that has fallen into a political void. Our political parties are grouped around a different set of values. We cannot deal with brexit in our current parliamentary structure.

Groups across different parties are vying for leadership of brexit but are operating within the confines of their party. The analogy is a football team going into a season without a manager with 3 players pushing to influence tactics after the game has kicked off.

So May spends 2 years creating a deal that no one likes. Parliament votes it down. And we blame MPs for the stalemate.

Yet, in truth, the stalemate is an unavoidable consequence of going into a referendum on a simplistic premise without knowing what leaving looks like or a plan for how we'd implement it.

[MillerBill]

So much for wanting to re-open parliament and get on discussing the Brexit exit.Another wasted day by this bunch of idiots who just do not want to contribute anything positively,just want to disrupt.Over 400 MPs represent constituents who voted leave and said they would honour the article 50 by coming out on March29th.They are a complete disgrace and they have cheated on the voters especially in this area.