O/T - general election 2019

[ragingpup]

I don't know what will happen and think predictions of a big Tory win may prove to be wildly optimistic.

If Labour do lose seats, I only hope that they sit back and carefully reflect on that. The reaction to the 2017 defeat appeared to be to celebrate not losing by a bigger margin and then veering even further to the left for this election. Had they offered a credible home for those of a moderate left position (such as myself), I suspect that they would have been romping home at the moment.

Sorry for delayed reply. Meant to get back to you on this. Yes, I agree, if we lose seats there has to be careful reflection. For me, if we don’t make active gains (which is most likely) the first thing is that Corbyn has to go. I’ve been saying that he’s a net liability for over a year now and hoped he would be replaced then but due to his stubbornness, mixed with lack of obvious successor material, we went on with him and his low hanging fruit baggage which = his name deterring many voters in working class and strong Jewish constituencies. In the campaign, he doesn’t look anything like the same man who I thought convincingly moved the party from centre to left ground when he became leader and re-enthused many who felt there needed to be radical change after the many years of cuts.

Then the policies. I know you and I would disagree but I think there does need to be a radical change and realignment of wealth and restructuring and strengthening of public services. You said recently that politicians need to be honest about how much that would cost and say that 1p on income tax for everyone would make much difference in affording better service. We need to raise more and on that we appear to agree. Which led me to repeatedly ask you what your suggestion would be to raise the kind of money we need, and this goes to the crux of our problem. Firstly, an acceptance of how much we need to raise in order to make a positive impact on public services and health care and then secondly how do we go propose to raise such an amount from the options available? The current Labour option is very ambitious and I would agree over reaches in its final amount. That leads to the question of what proposals do they draw back on? Here we might have some further agreement: non universal free broadband, dental treatment and education so that only the lower classes benefit the most. I wonder to what extent that Labour are appealing to the vote of these ‘comfortable’ middle classes by making them even more comfortable. And whether without offering them these benefits, they will be more likely to vote elsewhere? But of course that is offset by a more expensive overall spend, so we lose votes to those ‘irresponsible spenders’ accusation.

I would think it reasonable also not to renationalise all suggested services, to prioritise rail and energy possibly. And I would also take on board the IFS observation that collected business taxes, corporation plus others could take us to the top of the overall business tax payers in Europe, which is where we don’t want to be. So there needs to be some amendments there so that we sit comparatively with local competitors, who are able to spend more on services because they raise more through taxes, but not above and beyond them.

But I don’t think that the policies are far off, although I know many on here disagree, if we are to try and make a significant impact on the lives of working people. I think an important obfuscation is Brexit, without which I think the heartlands would remain strongly Labour, and we would not have bled so many votes to extremist remainers going over to Swinson’s stance. By contrast, Farage’s meek deferment to the Tory campaign, despite the Johnson deal being very soft by his and his supporter’s wishes is a huge factor and will I thing just about secure the majority. Labour need a serious review, but not throw the baby out…

[Silly-miller]

The thing is, the dog poo would better represent the interests of the ordinary working bloke in a town like Rotherham than the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg and his cronies. But that's where we are, a few more lies and false promises about "getting Brexit done" is all it takes and the working classes are hooked and prepared to vote for a party worse than a pile of dog poo. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas

What labour policy is for working class? The £400 pound tax on pensioners? The cancellation of the marriage tax credit maybe? The nationalisation of 4 industry’s? Or is it remain vs practically remain?

Just name me 3 policy’s that are working class

Also how do you know Another party won’t be more for working class if you never try another party? It’s like saying I don’t like chocolate because iv never tried chocolate.

[ragingpup]

What labour policy is for working class? The £400 pound tax on pensioners? The cancellation of the marriage tax credit maybe? The nationalisation of 4 industry’s? Or is it remain vs practically remain?

Just name me 3 policy’s that are working class

Also how do you know Another party won’t be more for working class if you never try another party? It’s like saying I don’t like chocolate because iv never tried chocolate.

From memory:

1. £10 minimum wage
2. National care service to end H&SC crisis
3. Increased investment in NHS ser
4. End of zero hours contracts and emphasis on secure work
5. 6 years of free education
6. Free broadband
7. Free TV license for over 75s
8. Most investment in NHS

And of course a substantial Green Initiative that would address the oncoming extinction of the human race, which I think will benefit the working class at least a bit

[Lasterman]

From memory:

1. £10 minimum wage
2. National care service to end H&SC crisis
3. Increased investment in NHS ser
4. End of zero hours contracts and emphasis on secure work
5. 6 years of free education
6. Free broadband
7. Free TV license for over 75s
8. Most investment in NHS

And of course a substantial Green Initiative that would address the oncoming extinction of the human race, which I think will benefit the working class at least a bit

All that free stuff and they still can't get the working class vote. Working classes clearly don't know what's good for 'em. Or maybe they've figured out that 'free' doesn't exist.

[sawmiller]

https://youtu.be/iX8GxLP1FHo

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

From memory:

1. £10 minimum wage
2. National care service to end H&SC crisis
3. Increased investment in NHS ser
4. End of zero hours contracts and emphasis on secure work
5. 6 years of free education
6. Free broadband
7. Free TV license for over 75s
8. Most investment in NHS

And of course a substantial Green Initiative that would address the oncoming extinction of the human race, which I think will benefit the working class at least a bit

But no indication as to how it’s going to be paid for.

However it’s organised London will come out of it well.

[Redshank]

Also how do you know Another party won’t be more for working class if you never try another party? It’s like saying I don’t like chocolate because iv never tried chocolate.

Sorry mate, I've been tasting Tory austerity for 9 years and it tastes sh;t.

But the last 9 years will have been like a cake walk if Rees-Mogg and Duncan-Smith are let loose with a stonking majority. The interests of ordinary blokes like you won't enter their heads. Just be aware of that when you cast your vote.

[Shark27]

Sorry mate, I've been tasting Tory austerity for 9 years and it tastes sh;t.

But the last 9 years will have been like a cake walk if Rees-Mogg and Duncan-Smith are let loose with a stonking majority. The interests of ordinary blokes like you won't enter their heads. Just be aware of that when you cast your vote.

And what happened the last time labour were in power? More importantly what happened to Rotherham? Do you think our town centre became more prosperous?

[Redshank]

And what happened the last time labour were in power? More importantly what happened to Rotherham? Do you think our town centre became more prosperous?

Following on from Wanchai's post....

Here you go mate (see link). Pretty positive stuff don't you think?...and all this in the face of the most savage Tory cuts to public expenditure ever seen. Just think where Rotherham could have been with a Labour government for the last 9 years

http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2019/05/new...t-growing.html

[Shark27]

Following on from Wanchai's post....

Here you go mate (see link). Pretty positive stuff don't you think?...and all this in the face of the most savage Tory cuts to public expenditure ever seen. Just think where Rotherham could have been with a Labour government for the last 9 years

http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2019/05/new...t-growing.html

Where was it in 2010? Had the town centre improved back then following government policies? From personal experience that time coincided with the decline of the town centre.

You are talking about 2018 when labour hadn't been in power for 8 years so when you say just think where Rotherham could have been with a labour government, I am quite sceptical.