Clearly Labour Hate Bright Kids

[baggieal]

Labour wrecked the old 11+ state grammar school system for bright kids. Didn?t want competition in schools. Introduced University fees - slapped VAT on school fees ( not every parent was loaded as many sacrificed holidays etc ) and now today university fees will increase again and then by inflation every year! I am sure Starmer enjoyed his free education!

Any sensible person would have looked at:
Combining some 3 year courses into 2 years for softer subjects.
Applying a percentage of a loan repayment on whether a student earns 20,000 or 80,000 for fairness as opposed to softer courses where many students know the debt will be written off.
Applying a sensible APR loan interest to student debt as opposed to a stupidly high rate.
Incentivising some courses ie medicine where many students even though they want to be doctors won?t want five years worth of debt. No wonder we have a shortage of doctors!

Scotland must be laughing where students in this country will get deeper and deeper into debt!

PS - university fees in Spain are about a third of the cost ( like almost everything else ) so our daughter is looking to go there especially as speaks Spanish!

[WBA123]

Labour wrecked the old 11+ state grammar school system for bright kids. Didn?t want competition in schools. Introduced University fees - slapped VAT on school fees ( not every parent was loaded as many sacrificed holidays etc ) and now today university fees will increase again and then by inflation every year! I am sure Starmer enjoyed his free education!

Any sensible person would have looked at:
Combining some 3 year courses into 2 years for softer subjects.
Applying a percentage of a loan repayment on whether a student earns 20,000 or 80,000 for fairness as opposed to softer courses where many students know the debt will be written off.
Applying a sensible APR loan interest to student debt as opposed to a stupidly high rate.
Incentivising some courses ie medicine where many students even though they want to be doctors won?t want five years worth of debt. No wonder we have a shortage of doctors!

Scotland must be laughing where students in this country will get deeper and deeper into debt!

PS - university fees in Spain are about a third of the cost ( like almost everything else ) so our daughter is looking to go there especially as speaks Spanish!

Labour did a lot for kids under the Blair government. Much more investment into education, more kids than ever going to University....I was one who benefited from that.

Student loan fees are ridiculous I will agree, especially the interest involved. But that has been applied across both Tories and Labour. Tories notoriously underfund education.

I do think they should scrap university fees for much needed courses, example nursing / medicine / science etc.

[baggieal]

That?s my point 123. Also combine soft subjects from 3 years to 2 years to reduce debt. I would also apply the same percentage across the board for pay back rather than a threshold. Many students on softer subjects don?t reach the threshold or don?t want to just go over as they could be worse off. Those paying debt back consistently will be picking up the debt from those that don?t pay it!

Incentivise more companies for apprenticeships where companies pay university fees. Good blue chip companies offer apprenticeships with salaries from 30/40K and pay all the uni fees too.

[Leicesterbaggie]

I blame Tony Blair, not praise him. He wanted 50% of the population to go to university. When I was at school in the late fifties and early sixties, roughly 20% of students passed the 11+ and from that 20% only a few went on to university. Today there are far too many attending university who have not got the ability to be there. Far too many ‘Mickey Mouse’ courses on offer.

The problem with Labour is that they dumb down to the mediocre instead of encouraging those with ability to aspire to excellence. In schools today competition is looked down upon. Nobody must lose! As a retired PE teacher I am pleased that I was teaching when competition was not a dirty word. Face it, life is a competition and the sooner young people realise this, the better.

[baggieal]

I blame Tony Blair, not praise him. He wanted 50% of the population to go to university. When I was at school in the late fifties and early sixties, roughly 20% of students passed the 11+ and from that 20% only a few went on to university. Today there are far too many attending university who have not got the ability to be there. Far too many ‘Mickey Mouse’ courses on offer.

The problem with Labour is that they dumb down to the mediocre instead of encouraging those with ability to aspire to excellence. In schools today competition is looked down upon. Nobody must lose! As a retired PE teacher I am pleased that I was teaching when competition was not a dirty word. Face it, life is a competition and the sooner young people realise this, the better.

You have hit the nail on the head LB. The bright kids in the old days went to Grammar School after successfully taking their 11+. It was Blair who wrecked this as he didn?t want competition in schools. Complete bollox!

Even today near me there?s still an old state grammar school which is selective and entry is hard due to the tough exam. Other parents in nearby villages are jealous because they feel the bright kids are being creamed off making other schools weaker. Why should bright kids be in the same classes as kids who are not academic or who don?t want to learn.

Blair then introduced uni fees. So with the 11* mainly gone and competition eroded in schools a lot of parents saved every penny to send their kids to private schools and sacrificed luxuries like nice cars and holidays. So what does Starmer do - increase school fees so it?s become unaffordable to those who scraped by!

Uni fees are now increasing and the level of debt is mind blowing. All the absolute bollox about Starmer being from a normal background is pathetic - he went to Reigate Grammar a top school which turned private whilst he was there and had a free uni education. His own son had a nice property to study in paid by a Labour donor.

Universities in Spain are a third of the cost so where?s the money going and where?s the encouragement for top degrees ie doctors where there?s a shortage. Would you be in debt to study medicine for 5 years and a doctors salary ( unless private or have a practice ) is nothing special anyway!

[kettering_baggie]

Labour wreck everything, always have done, it has always required a Conservative government to address the mess that is left behind a Labour one. I’m not saying that Conservative governments have necessarily been good, quite obviously some have been awful but not as awful as Labour. Starmer looks like a cardboard cutout, that’s his level of ability, too!

[Omegstrat6]

Our whole education system needs a complete over-haul from primary school upwards.

Not just government policies that have impacted on it but social/cultural changes too I believe. Examples of the latter are too many parents abdicating their responsibilities and expecting teachers to take over (from toilet training and helping with speech& language development to discipline) and parents who are too eager for their children to have their "rights" . This only works against schools who are trying to ensure rules are followed as too many kids then think they have a right to carry a mobile phone around with them at all times or not adhere to uniform standards or diss teachers etc. With this sense of entitlement it then comes as a bit of a shock to them when they enter the real world and work where they are expected to follow rules and perform at a certain level. I do understand that this does not apply to all school children by any means, but from speaking to teachers I know, it happens far too often.

In addition to the above, in too many deprived areas teachers also have to almost double up as social workers in some instances. Larger class sizes mean that the less able more easily fall further behind, the brighter ones are hampered from fulfilling their potential and those in genuine need of SENCO support are consistently failed. Given the challenges of the job and the comparatively low salary, no wonder it is hard to recruit more decent teachers.

The biggest obstacle to resolving all this is, of course, funding-or rather lack of it. Not enough money for maintaining the school buildings, not enough money for equipment, not enough money for staff, not enough money for SENCO support and, on top of that, the pressure from Ofsted to achieve. The move away from LEAs having control to increasing outsourcing to academy's has been an over-all failure. Not dis-similar to those failings in the NHS which can be attributed to Blair's creation of Trusts.

As for higher education, Blair is very much to blame for the failings here. Rather than recognising that not all children are academic (which in no way, of course, means that they cannot succeed in life) and focusing on enabling kids from all backgrounds to have equal opportunities to fulfil their potential if they were, he simply seemed to encourage everyone to go into higher education regardless of ability. It seems too many go for the sake of it or simply because there are not enough other options open to them.

Setting aside the whole issue over student loans (most of which will never be paid back) this then not only led to allegations of "dumbing down" but to far too many young people having the same qualifications fighting over far fewer jobs in the sectors they were interested in. Meanwhile, apprenticeship courses that may well have better suited many and better allowed them a chance of a job at the end of it were fast disappearing.

Nothing wrong at all in aiming to give kids from disadvantaged backgrounds the opportunities previously denied to them to progress into higher education if they were capable but we have now had several years where were have had more young people in higher education than ever before but I seriously question whether this has benefited either them or the country.

It's not hard for me to have more than a little sympathy with fellow "boomers" who argue that the old streaming system where grammar schools co-existed with comprehensives was better.

Surely the fact that a whole fifth of our current workforce is foreign born also points to some of the failings of our education system. Whilst cultural changes may explain why so many Brits don't want to do many of the lower paid jobs (care/ agriculture etc) it is surely a failing of our education system that we do not produce enough of our own GPs, surgeons, dentists, vets, IT specialists or architects for example to fulfil our needs forcing companies to look abroad.

[baggieal]

Our whole education system needs a complete over-haul from primary school upwards.

Not just government policies that have impacted on it but social/cultural changes too I believe. Examples of the latter are too many parents abdicating their responsibilities and expecting teachers to take over (from toilet training and helping with speech& language development to discipline) and parents who are too eager for their children to have their "rights" . This only works against schools who are trying to ensure rules are followed as too many kids then think they have a right to carry a mobile phone around with them at all times or not adhere to uniform standards or diss teachers etc. With this sense of entitlement it then comes as a bit of a shock to them when they enter the real world and work where they are expected to follow rules and perform at a certain level. I do understand that this does not apply to all school children by any means, but from speaking to teachers I know, it happens far too often.

In addition to the above, in too many deprived areas teachers also have to almost double up as social workers in some instances. Larger class sizes mean that the less able more easily fall further behind, the brighter ones are hampered from fulfilling their potential and those in genuine need of SENCO support are consistently failed. Given the challenges of the job and the comparatively low salary, no wonder it is hard to recruit more decent teachers.

The biggest obstacle to resolving all this is, of course, funding-or rather lack of it. Not enough money for maintaining the school buildings, not enough money for equipment, not enough money for staff, not enough money for SENCO support and, on top of that, the pressure from Ofsted to achieve. The move away from LEAs having control to increasing outsourcing to academy's has been an over-all failure. Not dis-similar to those failings in the NHS which can be attributed to Blair's creation of Trusts.

As for higher education, Blair is very much to blame for the failings here. Rather than recognising that not all children are academic (which in no way, of course, means that they cannot succeed in life) and focusing on enabling kids from all backgrounds to have equal opportunities to fulfil their potential if they were, he simply seemed to encourage everyone to go into higher education regardless of ability. It seems too many go for the sake of it or simply because there are not enough other options open to them.

Setting aside the whole issue over student loans (most of which will never be paid back) this then not only led to allegations of "dumbing down" but to far too many young people having the same qualifications fighting over far fewer jobs in the sectors they were interested in. Meanwhile, apprenticeship courses that may well have better suited many and better allowed them a chance of a job at the end of it were fast disappearing.

Nothing wrong at all in aiming to give kids from disadvantaged backgrounds the opportunities previously denied to them to progress into higher education if they were capable but we have now had several years where were have had more young people in higher education than ever before but I seriously question whether this has benefited either them or the country.

It's not hard for me to have more than a little sympathy with fellow "boomers" who argue that the old streaming system where grammar schools co-existed with comprehensives was better.

Surely the fact that a whole fifth of our current workforce is foreign born also points to some of the failings of our education system. Whilst cultural changes may explain why so many Brits don't want to do many of the lower paid jobs (care/ agriculture etc) it is surely a failing of our education system that we do not produce enough of our own GPs, surgeons, dentists, vets, IT specialists or architects for example to fulfil our needs forcing companies to look abroad.

Some very good points in there Omeg especially over parental responsibilities. I have always said with a few exceptions - a child is the product of a parent. A lot of learning comes from home as opposed to the expectation it?s all over to the teachers,

[Leicesterbaggie]

Our whole education system needs a complete over-haul from primary school upwards.

Not just government policies that have impacted on it but social/cultural changes too I believe. Examples of the latter are too many parents abdicating their responsibilities and expecting teachers to take over (from toilet training and helping with speech& language development to discipline) and parents who are too eager for their children to have their "rights" . This only works against schools who are trying to ensure rules are followed as too many kids then think they have a right to carry a mobile phone around with them at all times or not adhere to uniform standards or diss teachers etc. With this sense of entitlement it then comes as a bit of a shock to them when they enter the real world and work where they are expected to follow rules and perform at a certain level. I do understand that this does not apply to all school children by any means, but from speaking to teachers I know, it happens far too often.

In addition to the above, in too many deprived areas teachers also have to almost double up as social workers in some instances. Larger class sizes mean that the less able more easily fall further behind, the brighter ones are hampered from fulfilling their potential and those in genuine need of SENCO support are consistently failed. Given the challenges of the job and the comparatively low salary, no wonder it is hard to recruit more decent teachers.

The biggest obstacle to resolving all this is, of course, funding-or rather lack of it. Not enough money for maintaining the school buildings, not enough money for equipment, not enough money for staff, not enough money for SENCO support and, on top of that, the pressure from Ofsted to achieve. The move away from LEAs having control to increasing outsourcing to academy's has been an over-all failure. Not dis-similar to those failings in the NHS which can be attributed to Blair's creation of Trusts.

As for higher education, Blair is very much to blame for the failings here. Rather than recognising that not all children are academic (which in no way, of course, means that they cannot succeed in life) and focusing on enabling kids from all backgrounds to have equal opportunities to fulfil their potential if they were, he simply seemed to encourage everyone to go into higher education regardless of ability. It seems too many go for the sake of it or simply because there are not enough other options open to them.

Setting aside the whole issue over student loans (most of which will never be paid back) this then not only led to allegations of "dumbing down" but to far too many young people having the same qualifications fighting over far fewer jobs in the sectors they were interested in. Meanwhile, apprenticeship courses that may well have better suited many and better allowed them a chance of a job at the end of it were fast disappearing.

Nothing wrong at all in aiming to give kids from disadvantaged backgrounds the opportunities previously denied to them to progress into higher education if they were capable but we have now had several years where were have had more young people in higher education than ever before but I seriously question whether this has benefited either them or the country.

It's not hard for me to have more than a little sympathy with fellow "boomers" who argue that the old streaming system where grammar schools co-existed with comprehensives was better.

Surely the fact that a whole fifth of our current workforce is foreign born also points to some of the failings of our education system. Whilst cultural changes may explain why so many Brits don't want to do many of the lower paid jobs (care/ agriculture etc) it is surely a failing of our education system that we do not produce enough of our own GPs, surgeons, dentists, vets, IT specialists or architects for example to fulfil our needs forcing companies to look abroad.

An absolutely brilliant post! As I have previously stated I am an ex-teacher and totally agree with all the points that you have so succinctly made. Probably, there will be others who will disagree with some, or even all of your views, but I cannot disagree with a word of it.

[Albionic68]

And along comes 68 to rock the boat. I am in complete agreement with Labour for the first time in a while. I cannot stand other people's kids for the most part either 😉 .