OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramspride]

RamAnag What an earth were you apologising for? That the British people voted to leave the EU? Surely any sensible European would accept that it was a democratic vote. I don't hate the Germans or any other nations inhabitants come to that and I I'm sure you don't either. So what was the apology for. I know it's a long time ago but a few years after the Berlin Wall came down I stayed with some Germans in their home. You should have heard them complaining about Eastern Germans coming in and taking their jobs.

I also see Owen Smith is now standing to challenge Corbyn for the labour leadership. One of his ideas is for a second referendum depending how depending on what kind of deal the UK negotiated on the terms of Brexit. Hedging his bets wouldn't you say. The labour party is slowly killing itself.

But as I've said before it won't come to that after Italy, Holland, Greece and France pull out killing off the EU. We'll then start a common market. Now there's a good idea.

[ramAnag]

Think I explained earlier what I was apologising for rp. Explaining that 63% didn't vote 'Leave' amongst other things.
Can't disagree about the Labour Party 'killing itself', though I'm not sure there's anything 'slow' about it.
Possible that something good will ultimately come out of it as I can't help feeling that there'll be a sensible 'soft Left' coalition to vote for at the next election, assuming that's sometime in the Spring of 2020 and we haven't all gone to 'hell in a handcart' by then.
Be lovely to think that by then, the World will have come to its senses, the likes of ISIS, Trump, Johnson and Farage will have been recognised for what they are and Derby will be fighting for a place in Europe even if the rest of us are only 'associate members'.

[Trickytreesreds]

Think I explained earlier what I was apologising for rp. Explaining that 63% didn't vote 'Leave' amongst other things.
Can't disagree about the Labour Party 'killing itself', though I'm not sure there's anything 'slow' about it.
Possible that something good will ultimately come out of it as I can't help feeling that there'll be a sensible 'soft Left' coalition to vote for at the next election, assuming that's sometime in the Spring of 2020 and we haven't all gone to 'hell in a handcart' by then.
Be lovely to think that by then, the World will have come to its senses, the likes of ISIS, Trump, Johnson and Farage will have been recognised for what they are and Derby will be fighting for a place in Europe even if the rest of us are only 'associate members'.

You didn't add Corbyn? The man stuck in the 70's

[mistaram]

AnagRam. Did your German friends have an opinion on being ruled by Mrs Merkel who only got 49.5% of the vote in 2013 which means 50.5% didn't vote for her No the Germans don't winge they just form a coalition and get on with it

[macstheman]

I feel that the crux of this debate, both via this platform and elsewhere, is the question of the single market and the desire for closer political unity. I think that many outers are not anti the single or common market but find the polarisation towards Brussels of political influence a step too far. In many ways the UK has been moving away from centralised government towards more local control. This has been well-supported by the electorate and politicians alike. So a movement to centralisation within the EU runs contrary to that development. Many inners feel that the benefits of in are worth some governmental control from Brussels whilst outers want to see and feel access to their politicians. Maybe the 2 can never be reconciled but it is time to grasp the nettle and put aside differences and move forward rather than remain in a negative conflicting situation. Either way, up the Rams!

[Trickytreesreds]

AnagRam. Did your German friends have an opinion on being ruled by Mrs Merkel who only got 49.5% of the vote in 2013 which means 50.5% didn't vote for her No the Germans don't winge they just form a coalition and get on with it

I'll bet my right nacker she don't get 49.5% next time

[ramAnag]

Mista...Merkel was elected with 49.5% when there were a number of alternatives/options. That's the point...'Leave' are claiming a 'democratic' victory and to be the 'voice of the people' with just 37% in a 'two horse race'. That literally means that 63% didn't vote 'Leave' so htf can they be 'the voice of the people'?

P.S. You're right Tricky, I didn't add Corbyn...or Prince Charles. It's a list of evil, opportunist, manipulative *******s and doesn't include inept irrelevancies.

[ramspride]

You didn't mention that Scottish woman who doesn't want to be ruled by the UK but is perfectly happy to be ruled from Brussels. What an obnoxious plonker.

[swaledale]

You didn't mention that Scottish woman who doesn't want to be ruled by the UK but is perfectly happy to be ruled from Brussels. What an obnoxious plonker.

Seeing as the SNP are the dominant party in Scotland after the last general election clearly most Scots don't agree! Though IF she calls a referendum it will be interesting to see what happens.

yet again this misnomer of "ruled from Brussels" is said when actually that is not the case, those in the EU are governed (only Royals rule!) by their own democratically elected governments who then make decisions, which range from membership of the EU, NATO, trade agreements, peace treaties, extradition agreements, etc. etc. All of which have an impact on how a country conducts its affairs.

No Brexit supporter has managed to say which of the EU rules or laws has adversely impacted on them yet either!

Still its reassuring to know that theres a 70% probability that someone who supports Brexit also supports public flogging and the death penalty!

[swaledale]

RamAnag What an earth were you apologising for? That the British people voted to leave the EU? Surely any sensible European would accept that it was a democratic vote. I don't hate the Germans or any other nations inhabitants come to that and I I'm sure you don't either. So what was the apology for. I know it's a long time ago but a few years after the Berlin Wall came down I stayed with some Germans in their home. You should have heard them complaining about Eastern Germans coming in and taking their jobs.

I also see Owen Smith is now standing to challenge Corbyn for the labour leadership. One of his ideas is for a second referendum depending how depending on what kind of deal the UK negotiated on the terms of Brexit. Hedging his bets wouldn't you say. The labour party is slowly killing itself.

But as I've said before it won't come to that after Italy, Holland, Greece and France pull out killing off the EU. We'll then start a common market. Now there's a good idea.

Really? I only see the right wing neo fascists openly putting forward that idea in those countries, not the sort of people one would wish to support surely?

[macstheman]

Voting stats mean very little in our 'democracy'. No party has gained more than 44% of the votes cast since 1974 when Wilson won with 43.9% meaning 31.9% of the electorate. In 2006 Blair won a 166 seat majority with only 24.1% of the electorate. Our system virtually always produces a situation where the majority of the electorate don't support the winner whether in a General Election or Referendum. Indeed, in the 1975 Referendum vote whilst over 60% of votes cast wished to stay in it only represented 43% of the electorate, quite a high % by our normal voting patterns but not in itself a definitive result. We have to accept that our system is far from perfect and yet it has produced a relatively stable system of government for a b****y long time. Does the EU offer anything better??, I personally don't think so. I think I'll stick with our system whilst confident that our natural and inbuilt ingenuity, common to island races will take us through to a successful economic future.

[ramAnag]

You didn't mention that Scottish woman who doesn't want to be ruled by the UK but is perfectly happy to be ruled from Brussels. What an obnoxious plonker.

Possibly precisely because she, like me, doesn't believe she is being 'ruled from Brussels' rp.
Perhaps you could outline exactly how this Brussels based 'ruling' impacts upon your day to day life because I genuinely don't see it.

[AngryRam]

Possibly precisely because she, like me, doesn't believe she is being 'ruled from Brussels' rp.
Perhaps you could outline exactly how this Brussels based 'ruling' impacts upon your day to day life because I genuinely don't see it.

Bananas!

[roger_ramjet]

Swale: whether you support said people or not doesnt invalidate the fact that they are militating in favour of a collapse of the EU.

After all I'm sure you didnt support Hitler's final solution but it still went ahead despite your disapproval.

[Trickytreesreds]

Possibly precisely because she, like me, doesn't believe she is being 'ruled from Brussels' rp.
Perhaps you could outline exactly how this Brussels based 'ruling' impacts upon your day to day life because I genuinely don't see it.

1. Sovereignty- Over the past few decades, a series of EU treaties have shifted a growing amount of power from individual member states to the central EU bureaucracy in Brussels. On subjects where the EU has been granted authority — like competition policy, agriculture, and copyright and patent law — EU rules override national laws.
2.Stupid regulations on industry- (I know I have had to deal with it). Ridiculous ones like you cant recycle t bags lol
3. Anti democratic giving too much power to corporate elites. How does this effect me? Easy, it allows monopoly of services that I need. TTIP read up on it.
4.The Euro. Yes before you say it, I know we don't have it. But other EU countries do and it's been a disaster which takes money from my pocket and away from services which I could enjoy. All prescriptions and education should be free. It has also caused mass unemployment in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugal which they are over here seeking jobs. This effects me in many ways.
5. Free movement- The UK absorbed 333,000 new people, on net, in 2015. That’s a significant number for a country Britain’s size, though according to the CIA the UK still received slightly fewer net migrants, relative to population, than the United States in 2015.
In effect its harder to see a doctor/dentist/get a hospital appointment/ even house prices.
6. Money sent from this country, to upgrade the likes of Hungary/Romania etc. Does this effect me? Yes it does, because the EU is subsidising companies to uproot and shift to east european countries, thus making them money at the cost of our jobs. Exploitation of cheap labour. Had it happen to me twice now.

Is that a starter for you?