OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

rA I think you will find most people on here hate Johnson etc and the right wing bandwagon as well*. But it's not an exercise on whose dick is longer. Corbyn et al are equally objectionable. Just because there is someone equally bad out there, it doesn't mean you suddenly get better. It's a bit like asking whether you would rather die of a stroke or a heart attack. For me, neither please.

* except maybe Tricky, or MOP

I can't help feeling that your fear of the stroke is driving you straight into that heart attack.

A good sensible moderate socialist like you has no need to uphold one set of extremists over another. From what I understand of your constituency, neither lib or lab are likely to unseat the incumbent, so stick to your centre left principles and the libs, whilst hoping other constituencies will deliver your aim of a 2nd referendum. You can't do jack about it any more than I can in true blue Brexit supporting Reigate. Most of the country is disenfranchised at every election, rejoice in it and pray to the God's of PR

I accept you think I’m voting for the lesser of two evils GP and thanks for the compliment...well sort of.
That’s not my take...I do indeed regard the new Tory Party, that run by those I’ve mentioned, to be evil but while I’d question Corbyn and Co.’s competence their biggest fault may be idealism and I’ll take idealistic incompetence over malicious intent (and incompetence) every day.

The last (local council) elections here suggested that Labour stand a better chance than the Liberals. Not much chance I agree, but with the Brexit factor, Johnson’s unpopularity and the possibly mistaken decision to opt for an unknown Surrey based barrister to stand in for the retiring Patrick McLaughlin...you never know.

P.S. Bit unfair to ‘tar’ MoP with the same brush as TTR...aka the new working class hero. He’s the only one of us who’s ever got his hands dirty you know.

[Trickytreesreds]

Lol...TTR...the working class hero! I don’t think so, but before you run off with your tail between your legs...again!

Which bits of increasing the NHS budget by 4.3%, raising the minimum wage to £10 per hour, stopping the incessant rises in the state pension age, introducing a National Care Service, offering free bus travel to the U25’s and building 100,000 council houses a year are so objectionable to you...or for that matter trying to ‘recreate the 1970’s’?

Come to that...have Johnson and his cronies managed to come up with their manifesto yet? They spent so much time calling for an election you’d think they’d have some ideas by now rather than just insulting everyone else’s.

Run off with my tail between my legs?
Whatever, book boy.

Anyone can promise anything they want.
All of what you have highlighted comes at a cost.
Where the feck is that money coming from?

I've just watched them take that manifesto apart.
First thing you notice, they claim to be capable of raising £12 billion by taxing the rich. But have cut that net gain back to £5 billion as they expect half them to f off.
Now when they go, and take their investments/businesses/jobs with them, how much of that £5 billion lost making up for the payments in damge done?

They even left off the privatisation costs, though Jeremy says it will cost nothing, honest, swear to god, ask me mum.
Yet the CBI, claim it will cost £196 billion.
Now you're the king of quoting business assessments. WHO DO YOU BELIEVE?

Only an idiot would believe what Labour have promised is for the better. Like every time Labour is given a free reign with money, it turns to **** and we all suffer. WHICH LEADS RIGHT BACK TO YOUR MOANING ABOUT AUSTERITY.


So yes he yearns for the 70's. Remember that era? I do. Union power rules, 3 day working weeks, power cuts, cost of living ****e. This is what happens, when everything is returned to the people!!!

Remember, socialism works beautifully until someone ele's money runs out.

You say you're center left yet feel the need to defend Corbyns hair brained schemes? Unbelievable.

[mistaram]

I accept you think I’m voting for the lesser of two evils GP and thanks for the compliment...well sort of.
That’s not my take...I do indeed regard the new Tory Party, that run by those I’ve mentioned, to be evil but while I’d question Corbyn and Co.’s competence their biggest fault may be idealism and I’ll take idealistic incompetence over malicious intent (and incompetence) every day.

The last (local council) elections here suggested that Labour stand a better chance than the Liberals. Not much chance I agree, but with the Brexit factor, Johnson’s unpopularity and the possibly mistaken decision to opt for an unknown Surrey based barrister to stand in for the retiring Patrick McLaughlin...you never know.

P.S. Bit unfair to ‘tar’ MoP with the same brush as TTR...aka the new working class hero. He’s the only one of us who’s ever got his hands dirty you know.

RA just read this by Johnson's boss Dominic Cummings from a conference in 2018
He says " People think and by the way I also think people are right . The Tory party is run by people who basically don't care about the poor people . They don't care about the NHS and the public have now cottoned on to that fact

How friggin true

[Trickytreesreds]

RA just read this by Johnson's boss Dominic Cummings from a conference in 2018
He says " People think and by the way I also think people are right . The Tory party is run by people who basically don't care about the poor people . They don't care about the NHS and the public have now cottoned on to that fact

How friggin true

As far as the NHS goes, it is time it was removed from control by any government.
It is used as a political football by both sides, usually with false claims and lies. As it is the one thing that usually winds folks up, this has to stop.
It should be run by delegates from all parties, which has to account for itself and present its needs/budgetsto be discussed.
It also needs to be run better than it is. It's a white elephant on a run away cash train.
It's wasteful/top heavy with management/allows itself to be exploited.

I have had my monies worth and know first hand as to how good it is. It is however abused financially in many ways.
Time to stop this. Remove the politics and you remove the emotion over it.

[ramAnag]

RA just read this by Johnson's boss Dominic Cummings from a conference in 2018
He says " People think and by the way I also think people are right . The Tory party is run by people who basically don't care about the poor people . They don't care about the NHS and the public have now cottoned on to that fact

How friggin true

Exactly!

[Trickytreesreds]

Exactly!

Funny though how people's opinions either count or they don't?
The Brexit vote was an opinion, you two want that ignored.

Corbyn, is officially the worst opposition leader ever according to the public.

So what public opinion counts?

[mistaram]

Run off with my tail between my legs?
Whatever, book boy.

Anyone can promise anything they want.
All of what you have highlighted comes at a cost.
Where the feck is that money coming from?

I've just watched them take that manifesto apart.
First thing you notice, they claim to be capable of raising £12 billion by taxing the rich. But have cut that net gain back to £5 billion as they expect half them to f off.
Now when they go, and take their investments/businesses/jobs with them, how much of that £5 billion lost making up for the payments in damge done?

They even left off the privatisation costs, though Jeremy says it will cost nothing, honest, swear to god, ask me mum.
Yet the CBI, claim it will cost £196 billion.
Now you're the king of quoting business assessments. WHO DO YOU BELIEVE?

Only an idiot would believe what Labour have promised is for the better. Like every time Labour is given a free reign with money, it turns to **** and we all suffer. WHICH LEADS RIGHT BACK TO YOUR MOANING ABOUT AUSTERITY.



So yes he yearns for the 70's. Remember that era? I do. Union power rules, 3 day working weeks, power cuts, cost of living ****e. This is what happens, when everything is returned to the people!!!

Remember, socialism works beautifully until someone ele's money runs out.

You say you're center left yet feel the need to defend Corbyns hair brained schemes? Unbelievable.

Your usual right wing bolloxs Please tell me how Labour governed for 13yrs They did that after 80a mess left by Thatcher , remember her the one who stop you earning your living As an ex miner What made you vote Labour you told us you've voted for all the parties Talking of hair brained ideas suppose your great fan of Universal credit , bedroom tax ,forcing dismissed employees to pay £1,000 to pay for a tribunal You want to spend less time with you head in the Daily Mail pal But anybody worships scum like Johnson ,Farage and inhuman people Duncan- Smith hounding the sick disabled and poor It says a lot more about you than it does Corbyn

[ramAnag]

Run off with my tail between my legs?
Whatever, book boy.

Anyone can promise anything they want.
All of what you have highlighted comes at a cost.
Where the feck is that money coming from?

I've just watched them take that manifesto apart.
First thing you notice, they claim to be capable of raising £12 billion by taxing the rich. But have cut that net gain back to £5 billion as they expect half them to f off.
Now when they go, and take their investments/businesses/jobs with them, how much of that £5 billion lost making up for the payments in damge done?

They even left off the privatisation costs, though Jeremy says it will cost nothing, honest, swear to god, ask me mum.
Yet the CBI, claim it will cost £196 billion.
Now you're the king of quoting business assessments. WHO DO YOU BELIEVE?

Only an idiot would believe what Labour have promised is for the better. Like every time Labour is given a free reign with money, it turns to **** and we all suffer. WHICH LEADS RIGHT BACK TO YOUR MOANING ABOUT AUSTERITY.


So yes he yearns for the 70's. Remember that era? I do. Union power rules, 3 day working weeks, power cuts, cost of living ****e. This is what happens, when everything is returned to the people!!!

Remember, socialism works beautifully until someone ele's money runs out.

You say you're center left yet feel the need to defend Corbyns hair brained schemes? Unbelievable.

‘Book boy’...what’s that meant to mean? Is that the best you’ve got? Is it even an insult?

For your information...yes I spent thirty years in teaching, yes I’ve got a degree, but I’ve also worked - amongst other things - in farming (quite mucky that!), for a record company, in an industrial laundry (burnt fingers and hands a daily occupational hazard), in an engineering factory (hands in a vat of Swarfega at the end of each day), in a number of mills in the North West, as a porter and behind a bar.

So please don’t think you’ve got the monopoly on those ‘working class roots’ as you clamber into that brand new and oh so German BMW you’ve told us all about...and while we’re at it...maybe you could lay off the Johnson tactic of criticising other people’s policies and voting intentions and just share/explain your own.

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Book boy’...what’s that meant to mean? Is that the best you’ve got? Is it even an insult?

For your information...yes I spent thirty years in teaching, yes I’ve got a degree, but I’ve also worked - amongst other things - in farming (quite mucky that!), for a record company, in an industrial laundry (burnt fingers and hands a daily occupational hazard), in an engineering factory (hands in a vat of Swarfega at the end of each day), in a number of mills in the North West, as a porter and behind a bar.

So please don’t think you’ve got the monopoly on those ‘working class roots’ as you clamber into that brand new and oh so German BMW you’ve told us all about...and while we’re at it...maybe you could lay off the Johnson tactic of criticising other people’s policies and voting intentions and just share/explain your own.

EH?

There you go again, with the strop. You start the insults, it comes back and the teddies out the pram again.
You was bullied at university wasn't you? Did the rich boys use your bottom as a crumpet toaster?
It would explain a lot.
My monopoly as you call it, of working class roots. Don't treally get any deeper than 2 up 2 down, terrace house living and coal mining.
Anything I have in life, I worked hard for, very hard.

This socialst utopia you embrace is what has the lower end of can't be bothered drooling.
They really do believe they are getting something for free!!!
You as I said may not be rich, but expect to be poorer should Corbyns army get in. You have been targetted.

I have explained my position many times before. You are like Soubry, you just don't listen.

I always vote for what I feel is right for me at any particular time. I am not a monkey in a rosette voter.
You see you are doing what Corbyn wants you to do. He is blinding everyone with a thunderflash of magical policies.
Yet the elephant in the room is still Brexit.
He won't give an answer on his position. Yet all Labour have come up with, is remain/versus official remain.
Yntil those 17.4 m voters are satisfied with who acts on that. People like him and Swinson are toast.
So by blocking/delaying Brexit. You have all effectively shot yourself in the arse over your stubbornnesss.

My feelings on the NHS/tax/housing/ jobs have taken second place to that.
Conversely, delivering Brexit would have already impacted on those things for the better.

You dig your heels in kid. Maybe I'll get my no deal Brexit afterall.

[AdiSalisbury]

Lol...TTR...the working class hero! I don’t think so, but before you run off with your tail between your legs...again!

Which bits of increasing the NHS budget by 4.3%, raising the minimum wage to £10 per hour, stopping the incessant rises in the state pension age, introducing a National Care Service, offering free bus travel to the U25’s and building 100,000 council houses a year are so objectionable to you...or for that matter trying to ‘recreate the 1970’s’?

Come to that...have Johnson and his cronies managed to come up with their manifesto yet? They spent so much time calling for an election you’d think they’d have some ideas by now rather than just insulting everyone else’s.

I don't share TTRs view that teachers haven't come from a working class background, I know a lot of teachers from challenging backgrounds who genuinely want to make a positive difference.

The problem with the labour policies, is that they need funding. There is nothing in that manifesto, that gives any hope to UK companies, they will be flattened. I'm not going to get into the Fiscal side to heavily, but I can 100% assure you, from an HR perspective, that their policies will result in lower salaries, removal of any enhanced benefits (sick pay, redundancy pay, holiday, income protection, pension contributions... Etc) and ultimately redundancies. In no uncertain terms, they will **** us up. How can you promise all these things that would come from a prosperous economy, whilst cutting the nose off every UK company by reducing their productivity by 20% plus and increasing their taxes, and holding them to ransom every 5 minutes with industrial action?

And let's not keep forgetting their stupid promise to close the gender pay gap or fine companies in 10 years. To put that in context for you, that means that the dinner ladies would get paid a similar salary to the male teachers. Or Mel Morris would need a gender change.

I can live with the Lib Dems stopping Brexit and getting high on weed, I can live with Boris Brexit and disappointing wildlife provisions, but I cannot for the life of me see anything positive about Labour. Bye bye job, bye bye home, bye bye future pension.

[ramAnag]

EH?

There you go again, with the strop. You start the insults, it comes back and the teddies out the pram again.
You was bullied at university wasn't you? Did the rich boys use your bottom as a crumpet toaster?
It would explain a lot.
My monopoly as you call it, of working class roots. Don't treally get any deeper than 2 up 2 down, terrace house living and coal mining.
Anything I have in life, I worked hard for, very hard.

This socialst utopia you embrace is what has the lower end of can't be bothered drooling.
They really do believe they are getting something for free!!!
You as I said may not be rich, but expect to be poorer should Corbyns army get in. You have been targetted.

I have explained my position many times before. You are like Soubry, you just don't listen.

I always vote for what I feel is right for me at any particular time. I am not a monkey in a rosette voter.
You see you are doing what Corbyn wants you to do. He is blinding everyone with a thunderflash of magical policies.
Yet the elephant in the room is still Brexit.
He won't give an answer on his position. Yet all Labour have come up with, is remain/versus official remain.
Yntil those 17.4 m voters are satisfied with who acts on that. People like him and Swinson are toast.
So by blocking/delaying Brexit. You have all effectively shot yourself in the arse over your stubbornnesss.

My feelings on the NHS/tax/housing/ jobs have taken second place to that.
Conversely, delivering Brexit would have already impacted on those things for the better.

You dig your heels in kid. Maybe I'll get my no deal Brexit afterall.

Jeez...you forgot living in a cardboard box. ‘Two up, two down!’...you were lucky!

You’re truly delusional Tricky...read back the last hour or so - or any ‘correspondence’ between us - and consider who ‘starts the insults’.
Look at the evidence.

‘Have a strop’...’teddies out of the pram’. What are you talking about? You went off on an ‘up to the elbows in ****/oil/water’ rant before your stroppy ‘Bye’ and your ‘book boy’ jibe.
All I’ve done is laugh at you and point out that you’re not alone in getting your hands dirty.

‘Bullied at University?’ Where do you dream these things up from?
‘Socialist Utopia?’...when have I ever suggested that?

Still I suppose hidden in there somewhere is some suggestion of what you want from this election...a No-Deal Brexit...so now we know.

[Geoff Parkstone]

For the Potter fans here, Corbyn's employment plans are like the dementors. They will suck all the life out of business, wreck growth strategies and harm bottom lines and thus employment. For every person getting paid the same to work a 4 day week there will be one sat at home redundant. Automation is beginning to strip jobs away, this will do more damage to the job market.

At a time when the global economy is fragile and volatile at the same time, racked by US and Chinese trade wars and (potentially) with the UK economy tossed into Brexit by a Corbyn government (Brexit isn't the unique domain of the tories) its plain madness.

These strategies might be acceptable in a vibrant healthy UK economy, but now? Ludicrous, idealistic claptrap which will damage any hope of economic revival: and all for what?

[ramAnag]

For the Potter fans here, Corbyn's employment plans are like the dementors. They will suck all the life out of business, wreck growth strategies and harm bottom lines and thus employment. For every person getting paid the same to work a 4 day week there will be one sat at home redundant. Automation is beginning to strip jobs away, this will do more damage to the job market.

At a time when the global economy is fragile and volatile at the same time, racked by US and Chinese trade wars and (potentially) with the UK economy tossed into Brexit by a Corbyn government (Brexit isn't the unique domain of the tories) its plain madness.

These strategies might be acceptable in a vibrant healthy UK economy, but now? Ludicrous, idealistic claptrap which will damage any hope of economic revival: and all for what?

You’re better ‘qualified’ at the ‘costing’ business than me GP and I’m not going to argue with your opinion that the Labour manifesto contains aspects of idealistic unaffordability. I’d like to think it’s radical and ‘visionary’ but I’m honestly not sure how much of it is affordable.

Having said that...while you’re very critical of Labour (or the current leadership at least), you appear to be equally (and justifiably imo) hostile to Johnson and the new right wing dominated Tory Party...so, just out of interest, what do you suggest we do with our ballot papers on Election Day?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Throw them away, or a protest vote. The policies of both main parties are unacceptable extremes, the LibDems are pointless yet may end up holding a balance of power again thanks to at least having a policy on brexit. Green is a protest only and not likely to be influential in any way. It is a shame that one of the most important general elections in decades does not have a credible candidate.

I think history will look back on the election as a huge missed opportunity for Labour, who show themselves as indecisive (Brexit) idealistic and unrealistic (too much too soon) self destructive (toward small business and entrepreneurs in the main) and retro. With decent centre left leadership and policies, a decisive Brexit strategy and a sense of realism, they could have romped home in the election. As it is, we'll we shall see.

I just hope the outcome is a destruction of the polarisation around the extremes and Creaton of a centrist bloc. But don't hold out much of that hope

[Trickytreesreds]

Your usual right wing bolloxs Please tell me how Labour governed for 13yrs They did that after 80a mess left by Thatcher , remember her the one who stop you earning your living As an ex miner What made you vote Labour you told us you've voted for all the parties Talking of hair brained ideas suppose your great fan of Universal credit , bedroom tax ,forcing dismissed employees to pay £1,000 to pay for a tribunal You want to spend less time with you head in the Daily Mail pal But anybody worships scum like Johnson ,Farage and inhuman people Duncan- Smith hounding the sick disabled and poor It says a lot more about you than it does Corbyn

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrh, you're getting close to the crux of it now.
The mess left by Thatcher? The one who robbed me of my living? Interesting debate to be had here.

Thatcher came along why? Oh yes, the mess left by Labour if I remember correctly.
As said earlier, the country was sick to death of the way the left had destroyed this country from within.
Strikes/short working weeks/ power outages- remember them? Or wasn't you old enough?
The unions, given power seem to think they are a government in cognito. The miners brought down a Tory government. The unions destroyed the British car industry.
You talk about workers rights etc and that is exactly what unions are for. But who the hell gave them the rights to decide what happens in this country?
Just remind me again, who backs and endorses Corbyn?
The miners tried to do it again in 1984, but (sounds familiar) didn't want to do it democratically by ballot.

So it swings in roundabouts. The unions and Labour take it one way, then piss everyone off. The Tories come in, try to put it right and piss everyone off.
So people like you, with the chimpanzee in a rosette mentality, keep the cycle going.
It's never going to change then is it? Until folks start voting for what's on the table, then they'll keep making stupid promises in which to tempt me and you.
Your 13 years of Labour under Blair seemed like a new way forward. But ultimately, where did it lead us. A lying scumbag who took us to war over nothing. Left us (sorry, have to quote Jeremy Clarkson here)with a one eyed scottish idiot, who flogged all our gold for a handful of magic beans. An immigrtion policy that saw us jump from 50 000 migrants a year to 350 000 migrants a year. All on the pretext of getting more Labour voters.

As an off set. Food for thought. I'm not going to bang on about Labour shutting more pits than the Tories ever did. But both parties and others, are ramming the zero emissions down our throats every week now.
Exactly when and how would Labour/Lib dems/Greens have shut those mines in order to achieve this?
Shut them they would. No choice in the matter. The last coal powered power station is due to go out of commission in 2025.
So from screaming about the pits, Labour hasn't mentioned them for years.


I actually agree with you about tax pillages on the poor. This is the **** that an election should really be all about. But it isn't because of the Lib Dems unilateral stance on democracy and Labours stance on Hokey Cokey politics, whilst trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes.

That is what has lost Labour this election, with a woeful leader and his side kicks.