OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Didn't know May had a post Brexit trade deal to table, thought her problems were getting a withdrawal agreement approved? Goes to show how closely I followed it!!

[Andy_Faber]

I think remoaners would have a good case for continuing to remoan if HMG hadn’t done a deal but they have, a deal is done. Will remoaners now get behind ukplc as it forges a new path or will they continue to fight a lost cause? Who will be our own Hiroo Onoda, still holding out til 2049 in the depths of Sherwood Forest with a machete in one hand and a tattered EU flag in the other?

[swaledale]

As always you miss the point - it isn't about whether a deal was going to be done, even Johnson was well aware that a no deal would be disastrous for the Uk.

Neither is it a case of fighting a lost cause, its pure and simply holding the Government and Brexit supporters to account, this deal will leave us in a worse position, than could have been the case if a sensible approach had been followed - a hard Brexit based on such a narrow majority is neither democratic nor reasonable, but it seems a wafer thin majority, not all of whom by any means wanted a hard Brexit, have been railroaded into a position, which neither represents the claims made by the Brexiteers in the referendum, or indeed the claims made by the Tory government only last year.

If you really think that over half the population of the UK at least should just accept this and "move on" without clearly demonstrating what a **** show Brexit has been and by continuing to call out and remind people of what lies and falsehoods they voted for, then all I can say is you neither value democracy and frankly deserve whatever **** fall on your head as a result of Brexit!

You and others consistently moan about politicians but have never ever done anything about it. The mindless compliant millions who vote in these ****s every time!

Thats why people who at the outset could see what a stupid idea Brexit was for the UK, and said so, only to get responses from those who voted leave which neither made sense nor were based in reality, will continue to highlight the issues and falsehoods and indeed say "told you so" to those who now pretend that there are no downsides to Brexit.

THE GOVERNMENTS BREXIT CONTRACT WITH THE BRITISH PEOPLE (as published by them)

1. EU Trade – Exactly the same benefits – Not even close, benefits lost, frictionless trade lost, services not included
2. Trade Deals signed on Day 1 – they weren’t, other than minor existing deals that have been rolled over they still aren’t!
3. Money more for public services like the NHS – not the case, in fact Brexit will be more expensive than EU membership!
4. Northern Ireland no changes to the border – clearly not the case!
5. Rights, fully protected - Uk citizens have lost freedom of movement within EU, right to work within EU, equivalence of qualifications lost, student exchange schemes lost, health benefits lost, pension benefits lost – clearly not the case
6. Security all cooperation’s maintained – no access to Galileo (military satellite) no access to EU criminal databases which UK Police use millions of time a year, security clearly compromised
7. UK integrity of Union maintained – Northern Ireland already different, Scots independence more likely, Brexit has increased the likely hood of the UK breaking up.
8. Science – partnerships strengthened – NO – weakened by lack of access to EU research programmes, top scientists from around the world relocating in the EU, UK research sector weakened.
9. Date – fully out in 2019 – we weren’t
10. Immigration, drastically reduced, nope it will just be a different composition and it will be difficult for many employers to recruit the workers they need.


Just goes to show that a hell of a lot of people are so ****ing stupid.

[Andy_Faber]

As always you miss the point - it isn't about whether a deal was going to be done, even Johnson was well aware that a no deal would be disastrous for the Uk.

Neither is it a case of fighting a lost cause, its pure and simply holding the Government and Brexit supporters to account, this deal will leave us in a worse position, than could have been the case if a sensible approach had been followed - a hard Brexit based on such a narrow majority is neither democratic nor reasonable, but it seems a wafer thin majority, not all of whom by any means wanted a hard Brexit, have been railroaded into a position, which neither represents the claims made by the Brexiteers in the referendum, or indeed the claims made by the Tory government only last year.

If you really think that over half the population of the UK at least should just accept this and "move on" without clearly demonstrating what a **** show Brexit has been and by continuing to call out and remind people of what lies and falsehoods they voted for, then all I can say is you neither value democracy and frankly deserve whatever **** fall on your head as a result of Brexit!

You and others consistently moan about politicians but have never ever done anything about it. The mindless compliant millions who vote in these ****s every time!

Thats why people who at the outset could see what a stupid idea Brexit was for the UK, and said so, only to get responses from those who voted leave which neither made sense nor were based in reality, will continue to highlight the issues and falsehoods and indeed say "told you so" to those who now pretend that there are no downsides to Brexit.

THE GOVERNMENTS BREXIT CONTRACT WITH THE BRITISH PEOPLE (as published by them)

1. EU Trade – Exactly the same benefits – Not even close, benefits lost, frictionless trade lost, services not included
2. Trade Deals signed on Day 1 – they weren’t, other than minor existing deals that have been rolled over they still aren’t!
3. Money more for public services like the NHS – not the case, in fact Brexit will be more expensive than EU membership!
4. Northern Ireland no changes to the border – clearly not the case!
5. Rights, fully protected - Uk citizens have lost freedom of movement within EU, right to work within EU, equivalence of qualifications lost, student exchange schemes lost, health benefits lost, pension benefits lost – clearly not the case
6. Security all cooperation’s maintained – no access to Galileo (military satellite) no access to EU criminal databases which UK Police use millions of time a year, security clearly compromised
7. UK integrity of Union maintained – Northern Ireland already different, Scots independence more likely, Brexit has increased the likely hood of the UK breaking up.
8. Science – partnerships strengthened – NO – weakened by lack of access to EU research programmes, top scientists from around the world relocating in the EU, UK research sector weakened.
9. Date – fully out in 2019 – we weren’t
10. Immigration, drastically reduced, nope it will just be a different composition and it will be difficult for many employers to recruit the workers they need.


Just goes to show that a hell of a lot of people are so ****ing stupid.

I can’t help you with the flag but I have a ceremonial sword if that would help

[Geoff Parkstone]

There is an expression "pissing into the wind" and I would recommend you stop trying it Swale. What's done is done, we all know your anti Brexit views, but there is a time to realise when to give up and stop boring the crap out of everyone.

I voted remain, albeit marginally. So did Andy. But we recognised that, in accordance with the rules of the game, we lost. You (and rA) still dont accept that. It's time to grow up and 4 years on stop thinking that if you shout loud enough at everyone and try to humiliate them for not agreeing with you, this will somehow change things.

If you are as deeply concerned about the UK economy and the future as you appear to be, then put your energies behind making the best of what you believe to be a bad job. Railing against everyone who lied to you and against almost everyone else who you regard as stupid achieves nothing.

Put the shoulder of your mighty intellect to the wheel of making up for the inadequacies of everyone else, rather than blowing hot air.

If, that is, you actually do care about the fate of the fools that surround you - which I doubt. We have been repeatedly told that you're all right, Jack, so time to do something constructive for a change instead of lashing out at all who surround you.

[Trickytreesreds]

Merry Christmas everyone and a happy new year.

It's a wonderful time of year isn't it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVdQNLX-pc&ab_channel=BinTheLabourParty

[MadAmster]

In a 2014 C4 documentary they said that Joxit may well see what's left of the UK losing membership of the G8 and possible even the G20. That situation won't have altered.

[swaledale]

There is an expression "pissing into the wind" and I would recommend you stop trying it Swale. What's done is done, we all know your anti Brexit views, but there is a time to realise when to give up and stop boring the crap out of everyone.

I voted remain, albeit marginally. So did Andy. But we recognised that, in accordance with the rules of the game, we lost. You (and rA) still dont accept that. It's time to grow up and 4 years on stop thinking that if you shout loud enough at everyone and try to humiliate them for not agreeing with you, this will somehow change things.

If you are as deeply concerned about the UK economy and the future as you appear to be, then put your energies behind making the best of what you believe to be a bad job. Railing against everyone who lied to you and against almost everyone else who you regard as stupid achieves nothing.

Put the shoulder of your mighty intellect to the wheel of making up for the inadequacies of everyone else, rather than blowing hot air.

If, that is, you actually do care about the fate of the fools that surround you - which I doubt. We have been repeatedly told that you're all right, Jack, so time to do something constructive for a change instead of lashing out at all who surround you.

So from your point of view its fine to let Johnson and the Tories blow smoke up everybody's arse? Ok fine, don't complain when that policy results in unintended consequences to you.

I am doing something constructive, I am highlighting what has happened, not pretending that everything is wonderful, and going along with the con, that now's the time to "pull together".

You should know that that is complete bull****, Johnson's puffery and lies must be called out, fair enough you and the other ****s will shrug your shoulders and pretend that the only way is up, you will conveniently ignore all the lies and falsehoods that have been spread and perhaps even swallow them as being half true.

One only has to look across the Atlantic to see the damage that Trump's behaviour and lies is doing there.

So I will continue to hold these lying toe rags to account, continue to highlight where the promises have been broken where utter lies have been fed and that a good proportion of the voters are clearly stupid!

Anyway this isn't over, the future for the UK is bleak in many ways, not of course for the elite who spearheaded this travesty, no they have already made the necessary arrangements to shift their economic activities into either the EU or countries where there is easy access to the EU, many indeed have left the UK to live elsewhere they will prosper, the fools who voted for this will not however.

Clearly you don't understand where I or others come from, its not a case of not accepting Brexit, doh! We know thats happened. Its now just about keeping an eye on what happens going forward, making sure that every lie, false promise and claim, is challenged and that anything that is contrary to what Johnson and the Brexiteers said would be the case, is highlighted and brought to public attention.

As for people being bored, well this is the Brexit thread, I didn't start it, but if anyone wishes to avoid any further discussion, or is bored then they just avoid the thread, I mean its ****ing simple.

And yes i know that for the actual facts and truth are probably of little interest to many, but hey you know it gets read and it may just make people pause and think and maybe even check the facts a little.

AS for AF and you, well I've already reached a conclusion about both of you, not really people I'd have as drinking buddies, given your views and opinions even though you do try to disguise your true thoughts!

Also i quite enjoy the chickens coming home to roost, watching what I thought might happen come true. I also enjoy the way you and others seem to think that this is the end of it - mm we shall see. It might have sorted for now the question of europe in the ranks of the Tory party, but I suspect for the country as a whole the question is far from sorted. This one will run and run, especially as the negative effects start to bite and people wake up to what a gigantic con has been foisted upon them.

Mind you I will probably be having a good laugh from elsewhere other than the UK at that point.

Oh and your right I don't give a toss for the fools around me, if they voted for Brexit, then frankly they deserve everything they get, if they voted for Johnson then again its their choice, thats what democracy is all about!

[swaledale]

For what its worth, I don't see this as the end, its the end of the beginning and far from settling the europe question within the Uk, there will be a growing backlash over coming years as successive generations realise what's been done to them by aging, racist, conservative, nationalistic Europhiles, who in any case will diminish as they die off. It will be a short lived moment of triumph for the old supporters of Brexit, wincing as the forecasts of the remainers and the evidence of the gigantic lie they voted for is paraded in front of them on a weekly basis.

Within 10 years there will be a clamour to rejoin the EU, which itself will have changed within that time, those younger voters who voted Brexit in the belief it would change their lives for the better will see it hasn't and as ever prone to swallow whatever solution is proffered (and still not understanding the details or showing any signs of wanting to) will vote in favour of joining the EU.

By around 2030, we will be back in, having realised that in todays world, a small insignificant country has no power no influence without a partnership with others.

So far from it being time to shut up and get on with it, its actually time to not allow the Brexit supporters to get away with the failure of their project and to remind them of what was promised and how those promises fell so short!

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don't disagree that there may in time be a rising call to reenter the EU, but I wonder if they will want us back? There will then be a new sequence of lies by both sides (it's not just brexiteers that have lied in this process) as we go thru another few years of national angst.

I don't however follow the logic that Brexit was foisted upon a generation or more by "aging, racist, conservative, nationalistic Europhiles" since surely Europhiles would favour us remaining in EU.

[Ram59]

I don't disagree that there may in time be a rising call to reenter the EU, but I wonder if they will want us back? There will then be a new sequence of lies by both sides (it's not just brexiteers that have lied in this process) as we go thru another few years of national angst.

I don't however follow the logic that Brexit was foisted upon a generation or more by "aging, racist, conservative, nationalistic Europhiles" since surely Europhiles would favour us remaining in EU.

It's not worth wasting your time arguing with the bore, continually ranting and raving like he/she does. Some people have nothing better to do with their lives. I just look at the length of yet another tirade, laugh and move on to the next rational post.

[AdiSalisbury]

I wonder how the EU will get on, now we're not propping them up. Who will be next to leave? The mighty Estonians, Poooooooom! Enjoy your lucrative retirement in Slovakia Swale, wouldn't want you to suffer somewhere insignificant, crying into your cornflakes over that nasty Etonian Tory.

[Andy_Faber]

there will be a growing backlash over coming years as successive generations realise what's been done to them by aging, racist, conservative, nationalistic Europhiles, who in any case will diminish as they die off

I’ll forgive you your Freudian slip there, and point out the weakness in your argument. It’s well known through modern history that folk become more ‘conservative’, less tolerant and more cautious of the uncertain as they get older so tomorrow’s ‘aging racist conservative nationalists’ are already amongst us, masquerading momentarily as today’s young sold-a-dream idealists. Not saying that such progression through time is a good or bad thing, but it is a fact. Where do you think all the Leave voters came from? Well a good proportion (maybe God save us,37%) were Remainers as bright eyed twenty somethings in the 1975 referendum

[MadAmster]

The Brexit story will run and run. I'll give it 6 months before there is a spat because BoJo has done something that goes against the agreement and the EU look to the arbitrator to get the decision reversed or have sanctions approved. Cue the Brexiteers shouting "See, we were right, we've left but they still want to control us" when, in fact, the EU will simply be asking the UK to stick to what they've agreed.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Would that it were that simple MA. I foresee a huge interpretative body of case law and precedent building up and lawyers having a field day for years to come.

It will be interesting to see if the concept of a "brexiteer" continues beyond 1/1. In a curious twist of fate, brexiteers are now remainers, ie remain out. Whilst old style remainers become rejoiners, or maybe "Brentereers".