OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[AdiSalisbury]

As a waverer who is happy to take on board both sides of this discussion can someone explain the democratic process by which major policy change is achieved within the EU??

Same as any other out of the EU... policy makers receive anonymous donations following 18 holes and someone ends up a major beneficiary of a strange policy decision

[ramAnag]

As a waverer who is happy to take on board both sides of this discussion can someone explain the democratic process by which major policy change is achieved within the EU??

Tricky - sorry...difficult - one I think mac. Not sure I'm equipped to answer it but...as I understand it, the European Parliament is directly elected by the people - or those that can be bothered - and the European Council is made up of heads of governments who have also obviously been democratically elected. Beyond that I'm not certain of the process as regards how membership of the European Commission is decided...possibly by members of the two previously mentioned bodies...either way I suspect this is where attention to the democratic detail as regards policy change is required. I'm sure some change is necessary...I'm equally sure it will be brought about by those who are members rather than those who have chosen to relinquish their membership.

[swaledale]

Same as any other out of the EU... policy makers receive anonymous donations following 18 holes and someone ends up a major beneficiary of a strange policy decision

Not sure how thats much different from how most Governments work? I know theres the argument of directly elected, though the MEP's are elected. But take a look at any country, the US for instance - money power and influence rules politics and as the Eu is made up of politicians from a group of countries including our own, blaming it for corruption, wasting money and strange policies is like blaming a cow for taking a dump in a field!

In reality lobbyists advance the causes of the people and companies that pay them to do that, Political party policy advisers think up policies which the party judges will be popular and get them elected, plus a few others which are hardly mentioned that the lobbyists want.

[swaledale]

Yet more nonsense...I've never called you 'racist'...simply referred to you and another poster as having 'xenophobic tendencies', a claim which is totally justified given the way you repeatedly appear to display a mistrust of 'foreigners'. Neither do I think you will find any comments I've made about 'intelligence' or 'social class', although I do concede that I feel many people were misled by lies during the campaign.

I'm not 'throwing the dummy' at all and neither, as far as I can tell, is Swale. Neither do we speak with one voice. I agree with much of what Swale says and I think he talks a lot of sense but we don't know each other, don't act in conjunction with one another and, I think, have been quite amenable to the ideas of those such as Angry (usually), AF, Roger and others who have taken us to task in a more informed and less dogmatic way than yourself. That's probably why we're on post 719 in a, generally, healthy debate here and not stuck on 15 like your own board's somewhat impoverished recent best effort.

As for being an 'indoctrinated Juncker PR officer'...you keep insisting that I must be a supporter of Juncker, Cameron and Osborn if I am in favour of remaining in the EU. That is of course total nonsense. Can't abide any of them, fully accept that the EU has become over bureaucrasised - as I've said time and time again - but I simply feel that change from within is preferable to finding ourselves totally isolated.

LIKE LIKE

Tricky get over yourself! I ahve only reflected back to you what is in your increasingly overhyped and paranoid posts - your comments (often lifted from less than reputable sources) in respect everything from Assylum seekers, immigrants to just foreigners reveal a side of you that is not exactly favourable.

From a purely personal point of view being in or out of the EU won't affect me at all, but that might not be the same for many that voted leave and who did so for a variety of reasons other than the conspiracy theories you espouse.

Oh I'm not impressed by you posting sources which seem to back up your assertions, if I could be arsed, I could find an equal number of sources which support the Remain case. The turth i suspect is somewhere in between.

As for focussing on economics, of course I do, I see no advantage to anyone in the UK for the country to fail economically, its a bit like aye we are poor but at least we are "free"! Free to do what exactly?

[AdiSalisbury]

Not sure how thats much different from how most Governments work?

That was exactly my point, it's not unique to the EU.

[macstheman]

Thanks ramAnag, it sounds all a bit confusing!! Makes one wonder why such a complicated system was thought up in the first place. It seems that democracy is hell bent on avoiding simplicity preferring instead influence and endless committees to manipulate the electorate!!

[ramAnag]

Thanks ramAnag, it sounds all a bit confusing!! Makes one wonder why such a complicated system was thought up in the first place. It seems that democracy is hell bent on avoiding simplicity preferring instead influence and endless committees to manipulate the electorate!!

Quite agree...sadly that old phrase about 'power corrupts etc' seems to be true whether we're talking about Russia, the EU, the U.K. or the USA as things stand at the moment. Seems democracy always just comes down to a choice between the lesser of two evils.

[macstheman]

Except in the USA presidential election it's between the evil and the lesser!!

[ramAnag]

Yep...what a choice...the thought of Trump is just terrifying but I wish I had more faith in Hillary's integrity.

[southernram22]

there is none that i can find

[southernram22]

if europe is to be ruled by eurocrats from brussels then what point is there of having national parliments. especially as they overrule half of laws or at least interfere. just saying. though when you look at prime ministers question time you have to wonder what the difference between playground and hop.. i also read george osborne is considering his future in politics ? syre he will get a job with a bank or financial institution he was dreadful at politics.

[AngryRam]

if europe is to be ruled by eurocrats from brussels then what point is there of having national parliments. especially as they overrule half of laws or at least interfere. just saying. though when you look at prime ministers question time you have to wonder what the difference between playground and hop.. i also read george osborne is considering his future in politics ? syre he will get a job with a bank or financial institution he was dreadful at politics.

He is still planning his panic budget.. Pillock.

[swaledale]

if europe is to be ruled by eurocrats from brussels then what point is there of having national parliments. especially as they overrule half of laws or at least interfere. just saying. though when you look at prime ministers question time you have to wonder what the difference between playground and hop.. i also read george osborne is considering his future in politics ? syre he will get a job with a bank or financial institution he was dreadful at politics.

Agree about George but then he aint short of a bob or two so he wont go short, unlike the poor buggers he imposed austerity on!

Its a bit simplistic to say ruled by eurocrats, there are other internationallaws that countries sign up to, or are at least supposed to and these overrule individual governments. The whole idea of european law was so that countries worked to the same standard and theres actually a lot of sense in that, plus most EU laws we wont abandon anyway because they actually make snese. This idea that EU laws are negtaive is overblown, sure thee are some stupid regulations, but guess what? the Uk Government has introduced many of those itslef and the Uk is a very good jobsworth nation implementing EU law in a way that other EU countries dont.

I'd be interested to know exactly which EU rules have impacted negatively, I certainly never had the sense that we were omehow not a sovereign country as part of the EU and whilst in business there are rules and regulations that can be irksome, as many of those were introduced by the UK government as eminated from brussels.

[roger_ramjet]

Wibble wibble

Frisnit

Z'Goft

[swaledale]

Wibble wibble

Frisnit

Z'Goft

Indeed Gonzo!