OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Prefer british beef myself!!

SKYNEWSFLASH...................................... ... Ardent Europhile actually likes something British.
More as it happens.

[swaledale]

SKYNEWSFLASH...................................... ... Ardent Europhile actually likes something British.
More as it happens.

If you had half a brain cell, you would know I am not an ardent europhile! not being an isolationist, inward looking, xenophobic old git who wants to turn the clock back to pre war years does not make me aperson who does not appreciate what this country has to offer!

However, there are other places and other countries that equally have a lot to offer for those whose minds are open!

[Ram59]

If you had half a brain cell, you would know I am not an ardent europhile! not being an isolationist, inward looking, xenophobic old git who wants to turn the clock back to pre war years does not make me aperson who does not appreciate what this country has to offer!

However, there are other places and other countries that equally have a lot to offer for those whose minds are open!

Yes, a lot more than just the 27 in the eu.

[swaledale]

Yes, a lot more than just the 27 in the eu.

Indeed but it may have escaped your notice that its those 27 that are closets to us geographically and with whom we have the most economic trade and connection!

Granted that did not used to be the case but alas its a long time since we had an empire and like it or not in the Eu or out those 27 plus the others in europe are going to continue to be our most important economic partners.

[Ram59]

Indeed but it may have escaped your notice that its those 27 that are closets to us geographically and with whom we have the most economic trade and connection!

Granted that did not used to be the case but alas its a long time since we had an empire and like it or not in the Eu or out those 27 plus the others in europe are going to continue to be our most important economic partners.

Yes, but any one of those 27 or more worryingly, an area in one of those 27, has the power to prevent us dealing with the rest of the world. As seen recently with the negotiations with Canada.

[Andy_Faber]

Yes, but any one of those 27 or more worryingly, an area in one of those 27, has the power to prevent us dealing with the rest of the world. As seen recently with the negotiations with Canada.

There's a worrying inconsistency in the setup of the EU. The EU place considerable obstacles on trade (tarrifs, quitas, regulations) with non-EU countries, so are IMO commercially isolationist/controlling. However, it appears that any individual can pitch up from anywhere into the EU and either be welcomed with open arms (refugees) or allowed to stay due to collective ineptitude (everyone else), so are individually globalist/laissez faire.

[swaledale]

Yes, but any one of those 27 or more worryingly, an area in one of those 27, has the power to prevent us dealing with the rest of the world. As seen recently with the negotiations with Canada.

Mm its a tad more complicated than that, the trade deals are about terms of trade, they don't actually stop the Uk trading with other countries and its a rather consistent set of *******s pedalled by leavers that we can dismiss the economic interaction and interconnection we have with the Eu and substitute it with trade with the rest of the world!

Trade arrangements work both ways, enabling the Uk access to trade with other countries on more favourable terms than we could get individually, but I get that the british pysche seems to be that we don't want to benefit from being "in a club" becuase of course its better to be on our own. Well we shall see.

[swaledale]

There's a worrying inconsistency in the setup of the EU. The EU place considerable obstacles on trade (tarrifs, quitas, regulations) with non-EU countries, so are IMO commercially isolationist/controlling. However, it appears that any individual can pitch up from anywhere into the EU and either be welcomed with open arms (refugees) or allowed to stay due to collective ineptitude (everyone else), so are individually globalist/laissez faire.

Not sure what your getting at to be honest - refugees would be an issue whether we are in the Eu or not and as I've pointed out before we ahve our own issues withillegal immigrants from outside the EU who carry out criminal actiities here and thats down to the piss poor work done by our own government not the EU- Its very easy to use the Eu as a scapegoat and its fair to say that collectively the Eu hasn't necessarily acted as fast or in the right way on issues, but then that charge can be levelled at our own government, the point is will Brexit improve these matters, the answer is a big NO!

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure what your getting at to be honest - refugees would be an issue whether we are in the Eu or not and as I've pointed out before we ahve our own issues withillegal immigrants from outside the EU who carry out criminal actiities here and thats down to the piss poor work done by our own government not the EU- Its very easy to use the Eu as a scapegoat and its fair to say that collectively the Eu hasn't necessarily acted as fast or in the right way on issues, but then that charge can be levelled at our own government, the point is will Brexit improve these matters, the answer is a big NO!

I was pointing out an inconsistency, and its interesting that you only focussed on the personal/immigration side of the inconsistency.

[Ram59]

Mm its a tad more complicated than that, the trade deals are about terms of trade, they don't actually stop the Uk trading with other countries and its a rather consistent set of *******s pedalled by leavers that we can dismiss the economic interaction and interconnection we have with the Eu and substitute it with trade with the rest of the world!

Trade arrangements work both ways, enabling the Uk access to trade with other countries on more favourable terms than we could get individually, but I get that the british pysche seems to be that we don't want to benefit from being "in a club" becuase of course its better to be on our own. Well we shall see.

So, individual countries can't stop Britain dealing with other countries, we just have to negotiate our own poorer deal. By that definition, if we leave without a deal, then countries like Germany will be able to deal with us, but get a poorer dealer without the collective strength of the eu.

[Manofpride]

All this negativity. Brexit was voted in by it's people and is here to stay. We should embrace it and all push forward together to push this Country forward into a new era of prosperity!

[ramAnag]

All this negativity. Brexit was voted in by it's people and is here to stay. We should embrace it and all push forward together to push this Country forward into a new era of prosperity!

What do you mean by 'it's people'? There's no such thing as 'Brexit's people' and it was voted in by just over one third of the British people - or those aged over eighteen at least - in what seems increasingly like some ill conceived protest vote. Like you, of course I'd welcome a 'new era of prosperity' but all I see is a prolonged era of austerity.

[swaledale]

What do you mean by 'it's people'? There's no such thing as 'Brexit's people' and it was voted in by just over one third of the British people - or those aged over eighteen at least - in what seems increasingly like some ill conceived protest vote. Like you, of course I'd welcome a 'new era of prosperity' but all I see is a prolonged era of austerity.

When leavers say it was voted in by it's people they mean 37% of those who voted and many of those voted for something in protest at being overlooked by our ruling elites, whilst missing the point that it won't change anything for them!

Still I guess lemmings rush over a cliff not knowing what the outcome will be so like Lemmings the brexiteers all must be very optimistic!

[swaledale]

I was pointing out an inconsistency, and its interesting that you only focussed on the personal/immigration side of the inconsistency.

I was ignoring the inaccuracies about blocking trade its not a reflection about what actually happens - there are a whole different set of trade tariffs and rules depending upon which agreement you are in- so there is for instance a pacific trade deal, a USA - Mexico/South American agreement, and of course there are the general WTO trade agreements - the Eu does not act inconsistently, I can only assume as others have that you are using the recent issues with the canadian - EU deal as an example, but as always these matters are more complicated than gets reported in the media, never mind that some of that media put their own slant on the issue.

[swaledale]

So, individual countries can't stop Britain dealing with other countries, we just have to negotiate our own poorer deal. By that definition, if we leave without a deal, then countries like Germany will be able to deal with us, but get a poorer dealer without the collective strength of the eu.

Your assuming that the trade Germany does with us is worth more than the trade it does with say the USA? Yes there will be economic disadvantages to german firms who trade with the Uk, however as things stand it seems that germany and the other Eu states are prepared to put up with some economic pain in order to protect the EU's position, they perceive that the benefits from keeping the EU and the principles by which a country gains access to the single market are greater than the disadvantages.

Of course this is all posturing, at the moment, but economically we do need that access in one form or another and we need it more than the EU members need access to a tariff free Uk market, after all they to have the rest of the world to trade with!