OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[mistaram]

Quite agree MA, but my point was that you implied that you only respected a GE victory which achieved a
genuine working majority whereas, in the case of the ‘two horse’ Referendum, you appear to have a different set of standards where whatever that just over one third percentage is that so upsets Parky is allowed to win the day.

Tbf mista, Osborne couldn’t wait to run off into the sunset with Shady Dave so we’ll never know what his strategy as Chancellor might have been, plus...lest we forget...Brexit hasn’t actually happened yet so who knows what belt tightening the next Budget might bring us?

RA There will not be any belt tightening Maggie May has already told us austerity has finished 😁😁

[MadAmster]

RA There will not be any belt tightening Maggie May has already told us austerity has finished ����

Never had you down as the gullible type mista

[Geoff Parkstone]

Im glad I dont live in Sampletown, it sounds a nasty run down place like Leeds, full of DYS

[Manofpride]

There seems to be a lot of negativity again on here. Roll on March the 30th. When we leave on the 29th and wake up on the 30th and we see that the pound hasn't devalued to the sum of 20p and all the medical supplies haven't dried up and the supermarkets are still full we'll see the Europeans crying in their wine realising their empty purse won't be replenished by us on a regular basis in years to come and what the UK has done was the right decision by us. We'll all realise that all this negativity by the remainers over the past years was all a a waste of time and that the leavers winning vote to go it alone was the way to go!!!

[MadAmster]

I don't think you are far off MoP. It certainly won't be as plentiful at the start as Brexit said it would and it will also not be the disaster Remain predict.

[ramAnag]

There seems to be a lot of negativity again on here. Roll on March the 30th. When we leave on the 29th and wake up on the 30th and we see that the pound hasn't devalued to the sum of 20p and all the medical supplies haven't dried up and the supermarkets are still full we'll see the Europeans crying in their wine realising their empty purse won't be replenished by us on a regular basis in years to come and what the UK has done was the right decision by us. We'll all realise that all this negativity by the remainers over the past years was all a a waste of time and that the leavers winning vote to go it alone was the way to go!!!

Welcome back MoP. Glad to see you back, even if you are still a touch delusional.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Welcome back MoP. Glad to see you back, even if you are still a touch delusional.

I think he caught it from you during the course of this forum brief debate of the topic!

[Trickytreesreds]

Actually I could argue precisely that, via the argument that...in order to bring about such a drastic change of direction there needed to be a majority of at least 51% of the electorate.

That aside...I’m sure the Remainers exaggerated in the way campaigners do. There can be little doubt however that those running the Leave campaign - Johnson, Gove, Farage, Rees Mogg and their invisible backer, Aaron Banks - were responsible for the most spectacular and memorable lies.

We may also choose to remember what Farage said about in the event of there being a close vote and the fact that ‘my side’ as you describe it, was also your side back in June 2016.

Be honest GP...do you accept that the electorate is now more knowledgeable about the likely consequences of Brexit? I think it would be difficult to argue otherwise.
Do you believe that a second Referendum would be taken much more seriously than the original one where ultimately complacency and ‘protest’ won the day. Again I don’t think you can really argue otherwise...so what’s wrong with a second referendum now people know so much more?

Yep we was lied to, didn't what we was voting for etc.

Rewind the clock............................................. ...

FCO 30/1048: Heath knew it was treason



This classified government document dated April 1971 remained secret until it was released under the 30 year rule. It proves Heath's government knew the 1972 EEC Treaty would lead to the loss of sovereignty, and was therefore treason. They had a stunningly accurate picture of the EU, which never was the EEC (an Economic Community), expecting Britain to be abolished after the turn of the century.

The authors, all civil servants or ministers, are very pro EU, their intent is clearly to conceal the loss of sovereignty. But they understood perfectly it would all be abolished.

In public Heath's government all lied the treaty would not affect our sovereignty. This includes Douglas Hurd, still an active senior Conservative, who is also both a liar and a traitor, a point we put to him at the Conservative Conference in Blackpool. He assured us his connections in the legal profession would ensure he was never convicted.



Here are just a few of the damning sentences:



Parliament controlled

11. Membership of the Communities will involve us in extensive limitations upon our freedom of action.

For the first time. Parliament is binding its successors.



Increasing loss of sovereignty

The loss of external sovereignty will however increase as the Community develops, according to the intention of the preamble to the Treaty of Rome "to establish the foundations of an even closer union among the European peoples ".

Small threats to sovereignty, like Burgess, Blunt and Maclean's selling secrets to the Russians, attract 30 year jail sentences. The penalty for actually loosing even small parts of it until 1998 was "to hang by the neck until dead."

King Charles 1st was executed for treason that was, by comparison, relatively minor.

Lord Haw Haw (“Germany Calling” - William Joyce) was hanged for treason on 3rd January 1946. His efforts on behalf of Germany were tiny by comparison with Edward Heath’s.



Our law subservient

12. (ii) The power of the European Court to consider the extent to which a UK statute is compatible with Community Law will indirectly involve an innovation for us, as the European Court's decisions will be binding on our courts which might then have to rule on the validity or applicability of the United Kingdom statute.

The writ of a foreign power is not allowed under the British Constitution, which Heath was breaking.



Predicting monetary and military union

18..but it will be in the British interest after accession to encourage the development of the Community toward an effectively harmonised economic, fiscal and monetary system and a fairly closely coordinated and consistent foreign and defence policy. If it came to do so then essential aspects of sovereignty both internal and external would indeed increasingly be transferred to the Community itself.



No withdrawal, sovereignty diminished

22. Even with the most dramatic development of the Community the major member states can hardly lose the "last resort" ability to withdraw in much less than three decades. The Community's development could produce before then a period in which the political practicability of withdrawal was doubtful. If the point should ever be reached at which inability to renounce the Treaty (and with it the degeneration of the national institutions which could opt for such a policy) was clear, then sovereignty, external, parliamentary and practical would indeed be diminished.



Disinformation

After entry there would be a major responsibility on HMG and on all political parties not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures or unfavourable economic developments to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community.



Transfer of the Executive

24 (ii) The transfer of major executive responsibilities to the bureaucratic Commission in Brussels will exacerbate popular feeling of alienation from government.



Erosion of sovereignty

24 (v) ...The more the Community is developed ... the more Parliamentary sovereignty will be eroded. ...The right ... to withdraw will remain for a very considerable time. ...The sovereignty of the State will surely remain unchallenged for this century at least.



The EU Bureaucracy will rule

25. The impact of entry upon sovereignty is closely related to the blurring of distinctions between domestic political and foreign affairs, to the greater political responsibility of the bureaucracy of the Community and the lack of effective democratic control.



The writers understanding of the future of the EU was bang on. They wanted the bureaucracy to take over from the democracy. The loss of sovereignty was desirable for them, legally traitors working deep inside our government.

[ramAnag]

I think he caught it from you during the course of this forum brief debate of the topic!

Lol! Actually I think our 12.52 correspondence might point to where any delusion originates.

Hope we can all sort out where Heath, Hurd, Charles I, Burgess, Blunt, McLean and Lord Haw Haw all fit into the 21st century debate on Brexit. Jeez!

Suspect Aaron Banks’ actions might prove somewhat more relevant in the coming weeks.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Charles 1st is a bit of a stretch, but he is a fine example of what happens when you let a foreigner (he was a Stuart and reigned before the Act of Union in 1707) control our sovereignty. His belief in the divine right of kings to rule isn't so far distant from Juncker / the Commission's belief in the divine right of themselves to rule!

Heath was however very much responsible for getting us into this situation by promoting our initial entry into the EU (as now is), which continued despite there not being a "50%+1" electoral support for it; in Wilson's subsequent 1975 referendum 67% voted remain out of a turnout of 65% ie 43.5%, so, despite 56.5% of the country not actively voting to remain, we did. Sound familiar? Wilson had of course called the referendum to unify his party after 70 odd labour MP's broke the party line and voted to join in 1973. Sound familiar?

History does have a habit of repeating itself

[i961pie]

.Brexit hasn’t actually happened yet so who knows what belt tightening the next Budget might bring us?

It asn't?? Yet there seems to be quite a few remainers telling us what will happen.

[ramAnag]

Charles 1st is a bit of a stretch, but he is a fine example of what happens when you let a foreigner (he was a Stuart and reigned before the Act of Union in 1707) control our sovereignty. His belief in the divine right of kings to rule isn't so far distant from Juncker / the Commission's belief in the divine right of themselves to rule!

Heath was however very much responsible for getting us into this situation by promoting our initial entry into the EU (as now is), which continued despite there not being a "50%+1" electoral support for it; in Wilson's subsequent 1975 referendum 67% voted remain out of a turnout of 65% ie 43.5%, so, despite 56.5% of the country not actively voting to remain, we did. Sound familiar? Wilson had of course called the referendum to unify his party after 70 odd labour MP's broke the party line and voted to join in 1973. Sound familiar?

History does have a habit of repeating itself

It does indeed GP but it’s all a tad irrelevant to sorting out the here and now isn’t it?
I think we have enough to deal with considering all that’s happened over the last thirty months or so without going back to the 1970’s.

i961pie...you’re right...about as many as there are ‘leavers’ telling us how much better everything will be...in fifty years time...maybe!

[i961pie]

It does indeed GP but it’s all a tad irrelevant to sorting out the here and now isn’t it?
I think we have enough to deal with considering all that’s happened over the last thirty months or so without going back to the 1970’s.

i961pie...you’re right...about as many as there are ‘leavers’ telling us how much better everything will be...in fifty years time...maybe!

Sorry haven't heard that one. I think there will be some upheaval for a time (couple of years) certainly not 50 imo. You surely can't believe the leavers have the equal amount of propaganda that the Remainers get do you? Watch the BBC news or Andrew Marr, he has had 132 remainers on to 34 leavers. Watch the Daily Mash or Have I got news for you or question time the Biased Broadcasting Companies mouthpieces. They hate the Tory government and brexit.
Someone on here hinted that Corbyn stuck to his principles He is one big hypocrite, all his political life he has been anti EU in fact he has been anti everything from both Tory and Labour.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry haven't heard that one. I think there will be some upheaval for a time (couple of years) certainly not 50 imo. You surely can't believe the leavers have the equal amount of propaganda that the Remainers get do you? Watch the BBC news or Andrew Marr, he has had 132 remainers on to 34 leavers. Watch the Daily Mash or Have I got news for you or question time the Biased Broadcasting Companies mouthpieces. They hate the Tory government and brexit.
Someone on here hinted that Corbyn stuck to his principles He is one big hypocrite, all his political life he has been anti EU in fact he has been anti everything from both Tory and Labour.

Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed the Marr thing

The Daily Mash is a joke, I used to read the online Mash daily for a bit of relief from the traumas of the working day but it progressively pinned itself to the anti brexit, anti trump masts, and the TV version has taken that to a new level

[Andy_Faber]

It does indeed GP but it’s all a tad irrelevant to sorting out the here and now isn’t it?
I think we have enough to deal with considering all that’s happened over the last thirty months or so without going back to the 1970’s.

i961pie...you’re right...about as many as there are ‘leavers’ telling us how much better everything will be...in fifty years time...maybe!

I am now a bit more pessimistic about Brexit after Mark Carney suggested earlier that UK prospects MAY be better than he originally thought if we have an 'orderly' Brexit. What a death knell.