OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

What an amazing admission! You’ve spent two years criticising Remainers, sometimes justifiably, for having a go at Brexiteers over their lack of understanding.
Now you concede...’most people genuinely couldn’t give a toss about the Irish border or the customs union’...and there, perversely, you have nailed it.
If most people are as you describe...and genuinely ‘couldn’t give a toss’ about those two huge issues and their consequences, then Swale and I, amongst others, have been right all along. The ‘people’ were indeed ignorant of the most relevant facts and the Referendum was flawed from the off.

No you are REALLY missing my point now - despite having those two issues rammed down their throats ad nauseum, most people STILL couldn't give a toss about them, you (and Swale, seeing as you mentioned him) have been drawn in by the media, certainly on the Irish border issue.

[AdiSalisbury]

Perhaps Swale sells Irish border control vending machines, no wonder he's a millionaire now. Meanwhile, UK PLC just needs this wrapped up so it can get on with what it does best.

[ramAnag]

Perhaps Swale sells Irish border control vending machines, no wonder he's a millionaire now. Meanwhile, UK PLC just needs this wrapped up so it can get on with what it does best.

What does it do best, Adi?

Andy...you must be able to remember the Irish troubles and the impact terrorism had both in NI and in mainland Britain.
Likewise you recognise the importance of the customs union to the future trading arrangements of our island trading nation.
I know they’re boring, tedious and about as much fun as a headache but my point is...if, as you have reasonably admitted, people ‘couldn’t give a toss’ then they’re not, and were never, fit to decide the future of this country.

[Andy_Faber]

What does it do best, Adi?

Andy...you must be able to remember the Irish troubles and the impact terrorism had both in NI and in mainland Britain.
Likewise you recognise the importance of the customs union to the future trading arrangements of our island trading nation.
I know they’re boring, tedious and about as much fun as a headache but my point is...if, as you have reasonably admitted, people ‘couldn’t give a toss’ then they’re not, and were never, fit to decide the future of this country.

You're still missing my point, I'm talking about people both sides of the yes/no argument. There's still a MASSIVE disconnect between the issues droned on about in the press and TV and people's ACTUAL lives

I suggested about 1,000 posts ago that if UK leaves EU with no deal it should STILL leave the Irish border open, and dare Ireland/EU to do the same. As a way of smoothing things in this area I think UK could treat those on EITHER side of the border being disadvantaged in any way on a 'goodwill' basis, supporting them with some of the money saved by not 'sending' £167m a week to Brussels, and for that matter some of the DUP bribe.
Edit: Or increase Swale's tax rate

[MadAmster]

The DUP will not go along with NI having different rules to the rest of the UK. They have already said that, on many occasions.

[ramAnag]

You're still missing my point, I'm talking about people both sides of the yes/no argument. There's still a MASSIVE disconnect between the issues droned on about in the press and TV and people's ACTUAL lives

I suggested about 1,000 posts ago that if UK leaves EU with no deal it should STILL leave the Irish border open, and dare Ireland/EU to do the same. As a way of smoothing things in this area I think UK could treat those on EITHER side of the border being disadvantaged in any way on a 'goodwill' basis, supporting them with some of the money saved by not 'sending' £167m a week to Brussels, and for that matter some of the DUP bribe.
Edit: Or increase Swale's tax rate

With respect, I’m not missing your point any more than you’re avoiding mine. You’ve spent so many posts criticising ‘remainer’ arrogance as regards ‘leaver’ ignorance and yet yesterday you admitted that the majority didn’t give a ‘toss’ about the more complex aspects of Brexit.
Now you’re further suggesting that there’s a ‘massive disconnect’ between the tedious Brexit issues and peoples’ ‘actual lives’.
Of course there is...because essentially people aren’t interested in politics...but back in 2016 they were stupidly empowered to simply put a cross next to a choice of monumental complexity and significance for our country.
I have always maintained that, for various reasons, the majority of people possessed insufficient understanding of the issues to offer an informed opinion/vote. You have vilified those of us who have made such a suggestion, however politely, but you now appear to be accepting that this is correct.
People ‘don’t give a toss’...there is a ‘huge disconnect’ etc.
There may be the ‘huge disconnect’ with ‘actual lives’ at present, Andy...because nothing has happened yet. There certainly won’t be if the collection of extremists and inadequates who currently populate Parliament somehow stumble into a ‘no deal Brexit’.

P.S. There must be something about 37%...think this was the number of Tory MP’s who voted against the PM last night.
Unsurprisingly the sneering toff - Rees Mogg - seems to somehow believe this equates to some sort of victory...again!

[AdiSalisbury]

Farmers will farm, fishermen will fish, teachers will teach, and people like me will play with spreadsheets. The world will spin and traders will trade. Most of this media lead scaremongering, is quite frankly a load of *******s, but it sells papers, so I suppose they're just doing their bit too

[Andy_Faber]

Farmers will farm, fishermen will fish, teachers will teach, and people like me will play with spreadsheets. The world will spin and traders will trade. Most of this media lead scaremongering, is quite frankly a load of *******s, but it sells papers, so I suppose they're just doing their bit too

Can you please rewrite that in a way that Ramanag will understand?

[ramAnag]

Can you please rewrite that in a way that Ramanag will understand?

Oh I understand Andy...and it’s not me avoiding...again!
Perhaps Adi’s statement would make more sense if it read, ‘farmers will farm, fishermen will fish, teachers will teach...and traders will trade’, but with infinitely more difficulty than before.
As for the media, Adi...it works both ways. Yes there may be some scaremongering on behalf of those who support ‘Remain’ but there hasn’t half been some ‘*******s’ written and spoken on behalf of the Brexiteers, the Daily Telegraph for example has even been recently nicknamed the ‘Daily Boris’.

[AdiSalisbury]

Honestly, you genuinely won't be able to do your job in 4 months time? I doubt that very much. And anyone directly impacted, eg bidding staff, simply plan for any eventuality at present, and when the leave button is pressed, they'll adjust according to the market they sell in. Politicians will bicker til the cows come home, everyone else will get on with their respected trade

[ramAnag]

Honestly, you genuinely won't be able to do your job in 4 months time? I doubt that very much. And anyone directly impacted, eg bidding staff, simply plan for any eventuality at present, and when the leave button is pressed, they'll adjust according to the market they sell in. Politicians will bicker til the cows come home, everyone else will get on with their respected trade

Not sure I understand that response, Adi. Where have I suggested that people ‘genuinely won’t be able to do their job in 4 months time’?
I haven’t...I am simply suggesting that trading is going to become ‘infinitely more difficult than before’ and seeing as we are a trading nation which imports more than it exports, then the much weaker £ and the reduction in our current easy access to the huge European market is going to pose huge and, imo, completely avoidable problems.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure I understand that response, Adi. Where have I suggested that people ‘genuinely won’t be able to do their job in 4 months time’?
I haven’t...I am simply suggesting that trading is going to become ‘infinitely more difficult than before’ and seeing as we are a trading nation which imports more than it exports, then the much weaker £ and the reduction in our current easy access to the huge European market is going to pose huge and, imo, completely avoidable problems.

...but you don't really have any more DEFINITE idea than Mark Carney do you?

I think Adi and I are coming from the same angle, business (REAL business that has to get on with stuff and exist in the commercial world) will have a good idea of what's to come. I modelled it for my former company in 2017, the main impacts being intra-EU skilled recruitment and VAT on services from EU, and being the saddo I was at the time I'm aware that many of my fellow bean-counting saddos were quietly doing the same.

[AdiSalisbury]

...but you don't really have any more DEFINITE idea than Mark Carney do you?

I think Adi and I are coming from the same angle, business (REAL business that has to get on with stuff and exist in the commercial world) will have a good idea of what's to come. I modelled it for my former company in 2017, the main impacts being intra-EU skilled recruitment and VAT on services from EU, and being the saddo I was at the time I'm aware that many of my fellow bean-counting saddos were quietly doing the same.

Yes, exactly.

[ramAnag]

...but you don't really have any more DEFINITE idea than Mark Carney do you?

I think Adi and I are coming from the same angle, business (REAL business that has to get on with stuff and exist in the commercial world) will have a good idea of what's to come. I modelled it for my former company in 2017, the main impacts being intra-EU skilled recruitment and VAT on services from EU, and being the saddo I was at the time I'm aware that many of my fellow bean-counting saddos were quietly doing the same.

I ‘don’t really have any more definite idea than Mark Carney...?’
Wow...thanks for that Andy...actually I don’t think I’ve got a clue compared to Mark Carney and frankly it would be a worry if my understanding of the country’s economic future was in any way comparable to the Governor of the BoE...but thanks for the compliment.
It’s as simple as this Andy...Adi has his view, I have mine...we don’t fall out, but neither do we see remotely eye to eye over Brexit.
I listen to business and economic experts and have no time for nationalism. My conclusion is that, imo, this country is going to be worse off economically, morally and in terms of security if we follow the Brexit route.
If nothing else I’ve been consistent...as has Adi...but I really have no idea what you really believe anymore. We’ve been over your contradictions before but this week you’ve surpassed yourself, conceding that the majority of Joe Public are uninformed and ‘couldn’t give a toss’ and veering from your initial - and occasionally repeated - ‘Remain’ stance to writing in favour of a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
So what do you want...and please don’t come up with the old chestnut, ‘we just need to get on with it and jfdi’ because that is just a cop out in circumstances of this magnitude.

Bottom line...can you, or Adi, now please explain exactly how we are all going to be better off after any form of Brexit than we were before the Referendum? I’d genuinely love to know.

P.S....nothing nebulous please...and then can we talk about Monday’s match?

[swaledale]

You're still missing my point, I'm talking about people both sides of the yes/no argument. There's still a MASSIVE disconnect between the issues droned on about in the press and TV and people's ACTUAL lives

I suggested about 1,000 posts ago that if UK leaves EU with no deal it should STILL leave the Irish border open, and dare Ireland/EU to do the same. As a way of smoothing things in this area I think UK could treat those on EITHER side of the border being disadvantaged in any way on a 'goodwill' basis, supporting them with some of the money saved by not 'sending' £167m a week to Brussels, and for that matter some of the DUP bribe.
Edit: Or increase Swale's tax rate

I py quite enough tax thanks, not that I begrudge paying it - though I am pissed off about the amount wasted on brexit!

The whole problem with Brexit and the flawed concept of the referendum is that these issues are complicated and to say that the Uk could simply leave the Irish border as it is and dare (?) the EU/Republic to do the same is quite frankly a demonstration of a) lack of knowledge and understanding and b) contradictory in that I thought one of the Leavers great desires was to CONTROL OUR BORDERS?