OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Seems my knowledge of farming is a tad out of date. Thanks for the update. All in all, Swales questions, designed to put me in a corner, appear to have backfired somewhat with me providing viable answers and you correcting me on one.

Well good luck with those automatic machines that will do those agricultural task that to date are reliant on manual labour which is where most immigrants have been used!

As for being designed to back you into a corner, nah youve done that by yourself with your rather naive posts that bear no relation to facts.

Jeez its so funny reading stuff on here, the answers it seems are so simple, a number of you should be politicians because you have it all sussed!

[MadAmster]

hen I wont bother wasting my time trying to explain complex matters to you! Its clear from yours and other remarks on here that a lot of your so called arguments are, as Andy posted previously a moan about the unfairness of the way economic system works and somehow blaming the EU for that or being an extension of that - in point of fact the EU has done quite a lot for social justice and improving the lot of the "average" punter, but you and other seem to ignore that.

Just as you ignore the fact that those pushing Brexit are hardly philanthropists interested in those lower down the economic scale, they see it as an opportunity to further their economic advantage by exploiting people further.

If you who I'll assume is a person of average intelligence cannot even begin to grasp the negative impact of a no deal Brexit, then what hope do others have?

As for the fairy tale about mass immigration (i question the word mass but hey thats just a quibble)and how its not needed, well if we can overnight become this fantasy ideal socialist state you envisage, maybe, though the questions I posed are still relevant even if you cannot see that.

By the way with all this mass immigration as you call it unemployment stands at 4%, basically full employment, so the argument about skilled and unskilled immigration is facile - we need labour or the economy is ****ed.

It has been said that "they" (EU) want between 50 and 60 million immigrants in the next 10 years. That is, to me, mass immigration. I am intrigued as to how many million would be needed to meet your definition of mass immigration.

I am not advocating socialism. What I am advocating is that the "1%" and the multinationals pay "proper" amounts of tax, just as we have to. No more of this pushing money over 37 national borders to end up with paying 5 quid tax in some tax haven. Within every country, a company buys "ingredients", turns them into a product (goods or services) and sells them on to the consumer. At the end of the financial year they, hopefully, end up with a profit. Every penny of profit made in the UK should be taxed in the UK. Every Euro cent of profit made in the Netherlands should be taxed in the NL.

I am also advocating changing the way the stocks, shares, commodity and money markets work. Remove the gambling factor. Stop the likes of Soros virtually bankrupting a country and its inhabitants by buying up their currency and then dumping it on the market in one fell swoop causing the currency to plummet to an almost worthless level.

Strangely enough, and I have said this before, that would involve an international effort as an individual country doing it would see that country in deep financial trouble inside 24 hours. Unfortunately, the best vehicle available in this region is the EU at the moment.

In another answer you wrote "By the way with all this mass immigration as you call it unemployment stands at 4%, basically full employment, so the argument about skilled and unskilled immigration is facile - we need labour or the economy is ****ed."

Yes, the UK needs labour. As I also said in a previous post, bring the people in who have the skills for that work. Don't bring people in who don't have the skills the country needs. Switzerland does it, USA too, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc etc etc etc Why shouldn't the UK? For instance, the NHS has over 100K vacancies. The vast majority of those looking to leave their current location and relocate to the EU/UK do not have the skills for those jobs.........

[mistaram]

Okay Andy, I’ve eventually got round to watching it.
Thought it was as good as it was alarming and I agree, the portrayal of Aaron Banks was brilliant...nothing but a very wealthy political thug...and I’ve certainly not forgotten him.
The overwhelming thing for me was the further confirmation of the fact that Brexit has seen the democratic process hijacked and ‘bought off’ by the ‘dirty money’, lies and breaking of electoral rules by Banks and Co.
Given that context I’m staggered that you think everything is ‘crystallised’ by the ‘single white female’ who feels abandoned and disempowered by the system. It’s an important dramatic moment and I entirely understand both her frustration and your sympathy, but it is surely the UK establishment and British politicians not the EU that has created that situation.

RA your getting a bit tiresome by you "dirty money "comments on the Brexit side I have posted on here before that Remain did exactly the same I will gladly 're post it if you would like me to

[ramAnag]

RA your getting a bit tiresome by you "dirty money "comments on the Brexit side I have posted on here before that Remain did exactly the same I will gladly 're post it if you would like me to

Sorry you find it tiresome, mista. The whole bloody thing is monumentally tiresome imo, but it’s sadly also crucial to all our futures.
I’ll happily accept that those in favour of Remain may have exaggerated at times but as far as abiding by the rules and the use of ‘dirty’ money is concerned I think you’ll find that the Leave campaign has rather more to hide. Still if you can find a Remain equivalent of Aaron Banks, Russia and the Trump loving, Farage befriending Robert Mercer then post away.

[Andy_Faber]

I can’t argue with that Andy and have never argued against the idea that the Remain campaign was dominated by complacency.
That’s not really the issue though imo. Complacency is a fault for sure, but aren’t the use of ‘dirty money’ - either from Aaron Banks, Russia or Robert Mercer - not to mention the deliberate misleading of the public and breaking of electoral rules far greater ‘sins’/crimes?
Much has been said, in defence of Leave, that to ignore the original Referendum would be a challenge to the democratic process, but surely what the programme exposed was that the democratic process has already been horribly and blatantly compromised.

Mista has indeed posted evidence of Leave transgressions, but that arrogance/complacency nags away at me far more than any moody money, and if the dramatic portrayal is to be believed, the Leave campaign was one traumatic board meeting away from being as riddled with arrogance and ineptitude as Remain.

Incidentally, having stuck up for BBC (or at least QT) last week, yesterday's PM really let the side down, and in the feature which compared preparedness for a second referendum (already 100% presumptive by the Beeb), Carolyn Quinn repeatedly phrased her questioning as 'when' not 'if' it would happen, she just couldn't help herself

[mistaram]

Sorry you find it tiresome, mista. The whole bloody thing is monumentally tiresome imo, but it’s sadly also crucial to all our futures.
I’ll happily accept that those in favour of Remain may have exaggerated at times but as far as abiding by the rules and the use of ‘dirty’ money is concerned I think you’ll find that the Leave campaign has rather more to hide. Still if you can find a Remain equivalent of Aaron Banks, Russia and the Trump loving, Farage befriending Robert Mercer then post away.

RA Ok did post you names of the five companies that Remain set up one month before the election To try and get rid of some of their excess spending Your reply was that was just piffling compared to what Leave had done As though that makes it right

[ramAnag]

RA Ok did post you names of the five companies that Remain set up one month before the election To try and get rid of some of their excess spending Your reply was that was just piffling compared to what Leave had done As though that makes it right

I’m honestly not sure what you’re referring to mista. I’ve heard a rumour that Remain funnelled excess money into five other campaigns after the Referendum, but I know nothing about five ‘companies’.
Either way I think the investigation into Aaron Banks, the Russian connection, the money from U.S. millionaire Robert Mercer and the DUP contributions...all in the name of ‘sovereignty’ of course...are of more consequence.
So far Mr. Banks seems to have been avoiding Press investigation since the autumn Andrew Marr programme, choosing only to be interviewed on LBC by...yes you’ve guessed it...Nigel Farage. Funny that.

[mistaram]

RA the five companies and the dates they were set up
DDB uk Ltd. 25thMay £191,000
Best of the Future 27th May £424,000
The in Crowd 10th June £76,000
Virgin Management 2nd June £210,000
Wake up and Vote 24thMay £100,000
Electoral commission figures. Leave spend £13,436,241
Remain spend £19,070,566
Both groups have been fined for overspend.
Yes agree Mercer is a dangerous right wing fanatic But I didn't like tax exile Branson giving remain £450,000 when doesn't even live in the UK

[MadAmster]

Well good luck with those automatic machines that will do those agricultural task that to date are reliant on manual labour which is where most immigrants have been used!

Potatoes harvested by machine. As are onions, As are carrots. As are many other products like turnips and swedes. As are some fruits.

[ramAnag]

RA the five companies and the dates they were set up
DDB uk Ltd. 25thMay £191,000
Best of the Future 27th May £424,000
The in Crowd 10th June £76,000
Virgin Management 2nd June £210,000
Wake up and Vote 24thMay £100,000
Electoral commission figures. Leave spend £13,436,241
Remain spend £19,070,566
Both groups have been fined for overspend.
Yes agree Mercer is a dangerous right wing fanatic But I didn't like tax exile Branson giving remain £450,000 when doesn't even live in the UK

Fair play to you mista...you’ve listed the companies and I accept I didn’t know that, but the ‘dirty’ money issue is about origins not amounts.
Mercer is a billionaire right wing fanatic from the USA...the Russian money too, if there was any, is obviously from an area of the World that has an interest in destabilising Western Europe. In addition there is the DUP money and the dubious origins of the Banks money.
Farage is a ‘close aquaintance’ and ‘political ally’ of Mercer and Trump and, imo, what we should be asking is...how can it be right for a campaign allegedly aimed at restoring the UK’s sovereignty be so significantly funded by money from outside the UK and while I accept that Branson have chosen to reside outside the country, he remains a UK citizen with major domestic business interests.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hmmm,

To paraphrase the old adage, there are lies, damned lies and lists of company names!! I'm not sure where you got this information from, Mista, but it has to be somewhat questionable:

"DDB UK Ltd" - was set up in June 1968 and is a subsidiary of US NYSE traded Unicom Group Inc. It is an advertising agency with £ 200 million turnover. Its ultimate major shareholders are US institutions, pension funds;

"Best of the Future", "The In Crowd" and "Wake up and Vote" - no such companies registered in the UK per Companies House (that said they may be offshore) although linked in does identify a company The In Crowd Limited that is a phone app developer

"Virgin Management" - curiously there seem to be 2 companies set up under this name, but both have same registered office, so probably a glitch. It was formed in June 1981 and is a core part of the Virgin Media / Branson empire, although Branson is not a director

The two companies that you cite that I can identify were clearly long established before brexit was even thought of (in fact one before we even joined the then Common Market), and would seem unlikely vehicles to launder anything through, but who knows?

The other three are not prima facie UK registered companies, or indeed necessarily even companies, so who knows

[Geoff Parkstone]

the one that channeled most of the money into Remain was "The In Campaign Limited", now renamed "Open Britain Limited" and which hoovered up close on £ 20 million of donations which it disbursed campaigning. This being the company featuring Peter Mandelson, Trevor Phillips and others. I assume this was mostly made up f buckets and small donors, as the large donations below make up only about 6% of their total incoming

The electoral commission website is indeed fascinating. Good to see "Muslims for GB Limited" making a disclosable donation to "Leave", which is, if nothing else, rather strangely ironic, given the suggestions that an out vote was a racist vote. Still I suppose racism can come in different shapes and sizes

The 4th pre vote funding report showed major donors as being:

Liberty Global PLC via The In Campaign Ltd £500,000
Vote Leave via Mr Darren Grimes £400,000
Mr Crispin Odey via Democracy Movement £300,000
Mr David Harding via The In Campaign Ltd £250,000
Mr David Sainsbury via The In Campaign Ltd £250,000
Mark Coombs via The In Campaign Ltd £250,000
Mr Crispin Ooey via Global Britain Limited £233,329
Mr David Sainsbury via Best For Our Future Ltd £210,000
Mr David Sainsbury via Virgin Management Limited £210,000
Vote Leave via Mr Darren Grimes £185,31

Which would infer Virgin's contribution was merely Sainsbury's shipping some more in via a different conduit? It does explain the sudden increase in Sainsbury's prices seen in 2016 !!!

[mistaram]

Fair play to you mista...you’ve listed the companies and I accept I didn’t know that, but the ‘dirty’ money issue is about origins not amounts.
Mercer is a billionaire right wing fanatic from the USA...the Russian money too, if there w
as any, is obviously from an area of the World that has an interest in destabilising Western Europe. In addition there is the DUP money and the dubious origins of the Banks money.
Farage is a ‘close aquaintance’ and ‘political ally’ of Mercer and Trump and, imo, what we should be asking is...how can it be right for a campaign allegedly aimed at restoring the UK’s sovereignty be so significantly funded by money from outside the UK and while I accept that Branson have chosen to reside outside the country, he remains a UK citizen with major domestic business interests.

RA yes fully agree about Mercer best dangerous person He not only wants to destabilise Western Europe he wants to destabilise most of the world especially Africa As for Branson may still be a UK citizen no excuse for being a tax exile especially as his biggest contribution to this country is a tax funded rail franchise

[AdiSalisbury]

Unless they bought votes, does it really make a difference?

[ramAnag]

Unless they bought votes, does it really make a difference?

Well on the basis that the Brexit campaign was allegedly based on ‘reclaiming sovereignty’, I’d suggest...yes!

I also find it deeply suspicious that Nigel - I’m standing for ‘everyman’ against the elite - Farage is best buddies with a politically motivated American billionaire while Banks appears to be in cahoots with wealthy Russians.

All may not be as it seems then, mista. Like RR before him, Parky tends to know about these things.