OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Unless they bought votes, does it really make a difference?

Well on the basis that the Brexit campaign was allegedly based on ‘reclaiming sovereignty’, I’d suggest...yes!

I also find it deeply suspicious that Nigel - I’m standing for ‘everyman’ against the elite - Farage is best buddies with a politically motivated American billionaire while Banks appears to be in cahoots with wealthy Russians.

All may not be as it seems then, mista. Like RR before him, Parky tends to know about these things.

[Andy_Faber]

All this really crystallizes as an argument about who's **** is the better flavour - I'm sure one does, but it's still ****

Incidentally, re GP's comment that 'racism can come in different shapes and sizes', clearly one of those shapes is that of a Derbeian, because we were called out as such by Denise Abbott after her Steve Biggins-esque performance on last weeks Question Time. So if you were one of the 20,000 she estimated to be in the audience last week, you've been fingered

[Geoff Parkstone]

All this really crystallizes as an argument about who's **** is the better flavour - I'm sure one does, but it's still ****

Incidentally, re GP's comment that 'racism can come in different shapes and sizes', clearly one of those shapes is that of a Derbeian, because we were called out as such by Denise Abbott after her Steve Biggins-esque performance on last weeks Question Time. So if you were one of the 20,000 she estimated to be in the audience last week, you've been fingered

Id sooner be fingered by Dianne Abbot than the other way round

Fnaaar fnaar

[ramAnag]

All this really crystallizes as an argument about who's **** is the better flavour - I'm sure one does, but it's still ****

Incidentally, re GP's comment that 'racism can come in different shapes and sizes', clearly one of those shapes is that of a Derbeian, because we were called out as such by Denise Abbott after her Steve Biggins-esque performance on last weeks Question Time. So if you were one of the 20,000 she estimated to be in the audience last week, you've been fingered

It certainly encapsulates the argument about the BBC, Andy...that ‘lefty/liberal’ anti-Brexit organisation, as I think you’ve implied it to be at various times, now accused of racism and a pro-Brexit stance in the shape of everyone’s favourite...the lovely Fiona Bruce.

No idea what went on in the ‘warm up’ to last week’s QT that seems to have upset DA so much. Didn’t even know they had a ‘warm up’ tbh.
My take is that there did appear to be a disproportionately large number of particularly vociferous Brexiteers in last week’s QT audience and there was a general tone of rudeness, hostility and disrespect.
On the other hand, it seems a long time since Diane Abbott held any great credibility as a serious politician. She seems to me to be a classic example of someone who may have been ‘promoted’ beyond her ability. She has possibly benefited in the past from ‘positive discrimination’ but I don’t think she was ‘targetted’ last week because she is black...rather because she has become an object of ridicule and now seems incapable of maintaining a coherent argument.
There are, again imo, some very good and capable politicians in the Labour Party...unfortunately Corbyn and Abbott are not two of them which is one of the reasons this dreadful and totally incompetent Tory/DUP Government remains in ‘power’.

[Andy_Faber]

It certainly encapsulates the argument about the BBC, Andy...that ‘lefty/liberal’ anti-Brexit organisation, as I think you’ve implied it to be at various times, now accused of racism and a pro-Brexit stance in the shape of everyone’s favourite...the lovely Fiona Bruce.

No idea what went on in the ‘warm up’ to last week’s QT that seems to have upset DA so much. Didn’t even know they had a ‘warm up’ tbh.
My take is that there did appear to be a disproportionately large number of particularly vociferous Brexiteers in last week’s QT audience and there was a general tone of rudeness, hostility and disrespect.
On the other hand, it seems a long time since Diane Abbott held any great credibility as a serious politician. She seems to me to be a classic example of someone who may have been ‘promoted’ beyond her ability. She has possibly benefited in the past from ‘positive discrimination’ but I don’t think she was ‘targetted’ last week because she is black...rather because she has become an object of ridicule and now seems incapable of maintaining a coherent argument.
There are, again imo, some very good and capable politicians in the Labour Party...unfortunately Corbyn and Abbott are not two of them which is one of the reasons this dreadful and totally incompetent Tory/DUP Government remains in ‘power’.

Lots of opinions to 'unpack' there RA, maybe I'll wait til Swale puts his sherry down at midnight and passes judgement

In a sense the Beeb can't win but I genuinely believe they have started to overstretch their brief into influencing the public not informing it. stepping back from my usual perspective, this https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08dx4lz saw the usually excellent Katya Adler simply deciding to put on her ***y boots and give the inner workings of the EU a good kicking, totally out of character with her other work. I think factions of the Beeb are 'playing with us', not only in the area of my usual diversity hobby horse either

[ramAnag]

Anyone else noticed how the pound strengthens in direct correlation to the prospect of a ‘no deal’ Brexit becoming ever more remote?
Tells me a lot....a strong pound is crucial to a trading nation that imports more essential goods than it exports...the more likely a second referendum - and an outbreak of informed common sense - becomes the stronger the pound becomes. Just saying.

P.S. Apologies to those who thought this thread had disappeared but nothing is more boring than DCFCA’s repetitive anti Morris/Lampard moaning and, as has been said elsewhere, Brexit will be life changing...DCFC won’t...not this season anyway.

[Geoff Parkstone]

To be fair, DCFCA's moaning about MM is on a par with your moaning about a second referendum in terms of boringness. And also I notice you only comment on this thread as the prospect of a pointless second referendum raises its likelihood.

Are you sure you aren't DCFCA in disguise? We should be told 😒

[ramAnag]

Hi

To be fair, DCFCA's moaning about MM is on a par with your moaning about a second referendum in terms of boringness. And also I notice you only comment on this thread as the prospect of a pointless second referendum raises its likelihood.

Are you sure you aren't DCFCA in disguise? We should be told ��

Lol...absolutely positive.
Also, tbf, I don’t moan about the second referendum...as I said...’just saying’. Raising the issue.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hi

Lol...absolutely positive.
Also, tbf, I don’t moan about the second referendum...as I said...’just saying’. Raising the issue.

Ah but you will if remain lose that one as well! especially with another minority majority for brexit

[MadAmster]

IF.... and it's a chuffin huge IF....... there is a 2nd referendum, we should have 3 choices on it (I still won't get a vote though).

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly
3. Remain

If no individual choice gets a minimum of 50% +1 of the votes cast, there is another referendum, a straight fight between the 2 standpoints gaining the most votes in the new referendum.

[AdiSalisbury]

IF.... and it's a chuffin huge IF....... there is a 2nd referendum, we should have 3 choices on it (I still won't get a vote though).

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly
3. Remain

If no individual choice gets a minimum of 50% +1 of the votes cast, there is another referendum, a straight fight between the 2 standpoints gaining the most votes in the new referendum.

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly)

Why water down the vote with 3, leave has already been voted for? It just splits the public further. These politicians digging their heals in to remain are totally disgraceful, this should've all been sorted by now.

[ramAnag]

Ah but you will if remain lose that one as well! especially with another minority majority for brexit

Actually I won’t. It’s a gamble I don’t entirely like but if, given everything we now know, the vote is for ‘Leave’ I’d be hugely disappointed but have to accept that the majority of my fellow countrymen don’t know what’s good for them.

Note no one has challenged the premise that our economy/currency looks stronger in direct proportion to Brexit looking less likely though.

Why should there be the three choices ‘Amster proposes, Adi? Because without the ‘Remain’ option you would be disenfranchising that significant part of the electorate (34%) who voted ‘Remain’ last time.

[swaledale]

1. Out No Deal
2. Out with May's crappy deal that sees us out but still more than partially in (if I have read things correctly)

Why water down the vote with 3, leave has already been voted for? It just splits the public further. These politicians digging their heals in to remain are totally disgraceful, this should've all been sorted by now.

Ah but thats parliamentary sovereignty and representative democracy for you! Which ironically was something I thought brexiteers were eager to reclaim because it had supposedly been lost as members of the EU.

Interesting fact, IF the referendum had not been only advisory (which for those too thick to work out means that the result does not in any way legally or democratically bind parliament to enact its result) then the criminal acts of falsehoods and excessive spending by the leave side would make it null and void, its only the fact that it is not binding upon parliament that it hasn't been.

So in a real democracy and one which supposedly holds itself as beacon for the rest of the world, our MP's should actually be demanding that there is another referendum purely on the basis that the previous one was by any legal measure fraudulent.

The High Court came to its conclusion that the referendum was not legally binding guided by “basic constitutional principles of parliamentary sovereignty and representative parliamentary democracy”.

In a parliamentary democracy, as barrister Rupert Myers bluntly puts it, “the people are not sovereign”.

I'm not sure why people think that there would be a narrow majority in favour of leave if there were another referendum, only 37% actually voted and that only got a narrow majority, I suspect a far bigger turnout would see a clear remain majority.

[Andy_Faber]

without the ‘Remain’ option you would be disenfranchising that significant part of the electorate (34%) who voted ‘Remain’ last time.

Slightly ironic that you are happy to disenfranchise the 37% but not the 34%....

[AdiSalisbury]

Ah but thats parliamentary sovereignty and representative democracy for you! Which ironically was something I thought brexiteers were eager to reclaim because it had supposedly been lost as members of the EU.

Interesting fact, IF the referendum had not been only advisory (which for those too thick to work out means that the result does not in any way legally or democratically bind parliament to enact its result) then the criminal acts of falsehoods and excessive spending by the leave side would make it null and void, its only the fact that it is not binding upon parliament that it hasn't been.

So in a real democracy and one which supposedly holds itself as beacon for the rest of the world, our MP's should actually be demanding that there is another referendum purely on the basis that the previous one was by any legal measure fraudulent.

The High Court came to its conclusion that the referendum was not legally binding guided by “basic constitutional principles of parliamentary sovereignty and representative parliamentary democracy”.

In a parliamentary democracy, as barrister Rupert Myers bluntly puts it, “the people are not sovereign”.

I'm not sure why people think that there would be a narrow majority in favour of leave if there were another referendum, only 37% actually voted and that only got a narrow majority, I suspect a far bigger turnout would see a clear remain majority.

Such is the world we live in, low credibility and self serving, poor show.

Disagree with the last part though, another referendum would see a massive leave majority. Its good guessing, if only there was some way we could gauge public opinion on which way a vote would go.