OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

1. You seem to be being selective rA. Rees Mogg did indeed say it COULD take 50 years to recover. He did not say that it WILL. In the same speech he said it was a fantastic opportuntiy that COULD see massive benefits. He did not say that it WILL. For some reason you seem to have focussed on the 50 years line and not the benefits line. I am intrigued as to why you grab hold of the one quote but appear to dismiss the other.

2. Last time you looked you were right, however......... both the outgoing EU top 4 and the incoming replacements are hell bent on sourcing out more power and tax collecting opportunities from the member states to Brussels/Strasbourg. They want to standardise taxes and tax collecting. IMO you should not be looking at what the EU is today but at what the end game is. That end game is the reason I am against the EU. A huge, inefficient monolith that needs stopping while we sill can.

Of course I’m being selective...we’re all being selective but I’m not impressed when supporters of something start talking of economic pain and fifty years of recovery. These are not, imo, aspects/risks of Brexit that people were made aware of in 2016 and appear very much at odds with the sentiments emblazoned on the side of Boris’ bus.

I value your opinion on the EU...you’re resident in mainland Europe and are probably more familiar with the ‘incoming replacements’ than me. You also, although we differ at times, always try and offer a balanced opinion. Having said that, aren’t you also guessing at what the end game is?
Including England and Wales I think I’ve visited seven European countries in the last twelve months or so and each continues to have its own identity. I see no evidence of our British way of life being threatened by the EU and I do see benefits.
More to the point, by remaining as a powerful member do we not stand more chance of influencing the direction and form this ‘inefficient monolith’, as you put it, is likely to take?

[mistaram]

Jesus christ, you're such a drama queen.

So Rees Mogg says it COULD take 50 years to recover?
Do you believe that?
The operative term is COULD. In the same speech he said it was a fantastic opportunity that COULD see massive benefits.]
Now you and your mate, wouldn't believe a word out of his and Farage's mouth before.
So why is is now a revelation to you?

Conversely, the EU is in decline and the debts mounting. We are tied int o that and have responsibilities to bail out the decrepit countries.
Our trade with them is in decline and you ignore all this.

I think I'll take my chances thanks.
Remember the screams of doom that would happen the moment we voted leave?
Remember the screams of doom, if we don't join the Euro?

No of course you don't.

I'll say it again. I don't want to a part of a super state, locked into an immovable government and law system.
Don't deny it doesn't /isn't happening because it is.

NB. I have just ordered a new 3 series. BMW are not worried at all about Brexit at my dealers. They think it's funny, as trade will go on perfectly well.
I also requested they fit plates without that ****ing EU flag in the corner. That got a laugh and apparently it is quite common.

Unlike you and scizhodale, I see the benefits of opportunities.
Of course they want a deal, but a deal where they retain control is not a deal.
If they won't bend, so be it.

Tricky not sure which BMW dealer you go to but mine are shxxing themselves because the government have told them they will putting a 10.6% tariff on any completed foreign car.In the event of a no deal

[AdiSalisbury]

Of course they're not worried about your 3 series Tricky, it'll break down before October and you'll have to buy another one, more chance of your manager lasting 10 weeks then that thing.

[MadAmster]

I value your opinion on the EU...you’re resident in mainland Europe and are probably more familiar with the ‘incoming replacements’ than me. You also, although we differ at times, always try and offer a balanced opinion. Having said that, aren’t you also guessing at what the end game is?

No. Verhofstadt et al have said that the problem with the EU is that it doesn't have enough power and that the member states must pass ever more power and influence over to the EU, culminating in a federal Europe.

They spent decennia denying that a US of E was the aim. they now openly embrace it.

[mistaram]

No. Verhofstadt et al have said that the problem with the EU is that it doesn't have enough power and that the member states must pass ever more power and influence over to the EU, culminating in a federal Europe.

They spent decennia denying that a US of E was the aim. they now openly embrace it.

MA I can remember you saying months ago "I will believe we will leave when I see it" How right you are There still send no end in sight maybe be how's the time for another "Indicitive vote" whatever the fxxxk that meant

[Andy_Faber]

I have just ordered a new 3 series.

Is that all? Are you Swales' butler?

[Manofpride]

I'd just like to be one of the first to congratulate Boris on being our new PM.
Here's hoping he gets Brexit over the line on the 31st October, the futures bright the futures Boris!

THE DREAM TEAM

[ramAnag]

Why are remainers now believing Mogg about 50 years to recover, you haven't believed anything else he's said!

No one knows how long the recovery will be, no one.
I know one thing though and that is if everyone got on board with this the recovery time would be a lot quicker but remainers just keep trying to put obstacles in the way. We voted and no matter what the percentages were leave won it, We are leaving and it's going to happen, surely you want the Country to succeed when we do leave or do you want it all to just fail so you can say told you so.
Who's ever right or wrong we have to stick together, to want the Country to succeed we have to stick together, but there are many people who genuinely want it to fail but it's nice to know that of all the people wanting it to fail none of them will be leavers!

MoP...I don’t necessarily believe him and usually take anything he says with the proverbial ‘pinch of salt’ but you have to admit it’s not encouraging when the arch advocate of Brexit provides such a ‘doomsday’ scenario.

As for the rest...Leavers don’t have the monopoly on wanting our country to do well.
I imagine you and I want the same thing...a strong, respected and trusted nation with improved health care, a well funded education system, better housing, an improved transport system and more adequately funded police service etc. You think Brexit will, eventually, bring us all that whereas I think it will jeopardise any chance of us achieving those aims for the foreseeable future.

We disagree and are both entitled to our views, but you are wrong, imo, to portray Remainers as in any way wanting our country ‘to fail’. Quite the reverse.

[Andy_Faber]

MoP...I don’t necessarily believe him and usually take anything he says with the proverbial ‘pinch of salt’ but you have to admit it’s not encouraging when the arch advocate of Brexit provides such a ‘doomsday’ scenario.

As for the rest...Leavers don’t have the monopoly on wanting our country to do well.
I imagine you and I want the same thing...a strong, respected and trusted nation with improved health care, a well funded education system, better housing, an improved transport system and more adequately funded police service etc. You think Brexit will, eventually, bring us all that whereas I think it will jeopardise any chance of us achieving those aims for the foreseeable future.

We disagree and are both entitled to our views, but you are wrong, imo, to portray Remainers as in any way wanting our country ‘to fail’. Quite the reverse.

Be thankful we have the endorsement of The Don. I remain on the side of those American folk who voted for a different flavour of sh*t to the one they were being fed, but Jeez what WAS Trump on about today?

[ramAnag]

I'd just like to be one of the first to congratulate Boris on being our new PM.
Here's hoping he gets Brexit over the line on the 31st October, the futures bright the futures Boris!

THE DREAM TEAM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]13310[/ATTACH]

Jeez...just need to add Trump for the complete nightmare!

[mistaram]

I'd just like to be one of the first to congratulate Boris on being our new PM.
Here's hoping he gets Brexit over the line on the 31st October, the futures bright the futures Boris!

THE DREAM TEAM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]13310[/ATTACH]

MoP I suppose we are very lucky to have an Elitist,dishonest, lazy,racist,homophobic,PM. The man who lost £40million in a garden bridge because Joanna Lumley told him would be a good idea. Still will have plenty of our money no to "spazz up the wall" If you need me to clarify my accusations i will be glad to oblige

[swaledale]

If you are going to have a referendum, which I for one would not, then the basis should be:

1. Mandatory voting, failure to vote without just cause (eg at A&E or something life threatening, not "it was raining") should be a criminal offence and dealt with accordingly. This may involve passing some enforcement legislation, which means parliamentary approval, so that probably wont happen;

2. A STV three way option (and this presumes there is a deal in place to stand as one of the options) asking the man in the street to pick one of "Remain, No Deal or Leave by Deal" and then pick a second option for when the inevitable no overall majority is achieved. This would then give a tie breaker;

3. Parliament to absolutely guarantee to enact the decision of that referendum regardless of the outcome, with no stalling, no prevarication and in the manner that the STV driven outcome dictates;

4. Absence of parliament enacting the decision within 3 months of the referendum would lead to dissolution of parliament and lifetime bans on all extant MP's for standing again.

The issue here is not that the result will go one way or the other, but rather that parliament devolved the decision to the general public, and then, when the result was not what they wanted, parliament has done everything it can to thwart that decision, even to the extent of negotiating a deal so bad that it was not acceptable to anyone. This action, even more so than Blair's war mongering, parliamentary expenses fiddles and so on has caused parliament to be held in contempt and disrepute. They must either piss or get off the pot, as my dear old granddad was wont to say.

Any weaker form of referendum (eg RA's voluntary binary one) would not get my support as it will unquestionably result in another inconclusive message, with either a second minority majority decision to leave, or a one all draw on a minority majority basis.

The punishment for failing to vote in the 2nd referendum would be for the malcontent to be sewn up in a leather sack with RA and Angry and tossed off Tower Bridge' in a latter day version of the Roman "poena cullei". Or maybe that sentence should have just ended before the word "Tower"

What bit a Advisory Referendum do you not understand. What bit about it being the hard Brexiteers NOT voting for the withdrawal agreement, which blocked Brexit do you not understand? What bit about the withdrawal agreement and the transition period being necessary to allow the Uk to leave the EU and actually negotiate a new trade deal do you not understand?

Given May called an election and the great Uk electorate did not give her or the Tories an overwhelming mandate to enable them to effect Brexit, this *******s that leavers talk about "the will of the people" and that parliament are being undemocratic is just that, plus an illustration of just how ignorant people are as to how a representative parliament works.

Even those who I class as sentient on here seem to have a warped view of reality and those who think Boris will pull a rabbit out of the hat are living in cloud cuckoo land! But it will be fun watching him try!

[Trickytreesreds]

What bit a Advisory Referendum do you not understand. What bit about it being the hard Brexiteers NOT voting for the withdrawal agreement, which blocked Brexit do you not understand? What bit about the withdrawal agreement and the transition period being necessary to allow the Uk to leave the EU and actually negotiate a new trade deal do you not understand?

Given May called an election and the great Uk electorate did not give her or the Tories an overwhelming mandate to enable them to effect Brexit, this *******s that leavers talk about "the will of the people" and that parliament are being undemocratic is just that, plus an illustration of just how ignorant people are as to how a representative parliament works.

Even those who I class as sentient on here seem to have a warped view of reality and those who think Boris will pull a rabbit out of the hat are living in cloud cuckoo land! But it will be fun watching him try!

Advisory?

Ok then, who voted it into law?
Who voted on the activation of article 50?
Yep it was parliament, after Gina Miller stuck her nosy **** into it, to try and undo it.

However. There has always been a hardcore of blockers on both sides of the house, who by hook or crook. Have decided they are not letting this happen at all.

Every thing here, was triggered by a public vote.
Fail to implement it and every vote in the future will have massive repercussions to our electoral system.
Of course you being a Europhile and federalist, this would delight you.
Hand over everything to Brussels and let them tell us how to live our lives. Then you'll see democracy, or lack of it.

[MadAmster]

What bit a Advisory Referendum do you not understand. What bit about it being the hard Brexiteers NOT voting for the withdrawal agreement, which blocked Brexit do you not understand? What bit about the withdrawal agreement and the transition period being necessary to allow the Uk to leave the EU and actually negotiate a new trade deal do you not understand?

Given May called an election and the great Uk electorate did not give her or the Tories an overwhelming mandate to enable them to effect Brexit, this *******s that leavers talk about "the will of the people" and that parliament are being undemocratic is just that, plus an illustration of just how ignorant people are as to how a representative parliament works.

Even those who I class as sentient on here seem to have a warped view of reality and those who think Boris will pull a rabbit out of the hat are living in cloud cuckoo land! But it will be fun watching him try!

Swale, you are correct. The Bill/Act allowing the referendum did, indeed, state that it was an advisory refrendum. However, the Prime Minister who instigated it for no other reason than to try to heal the splits in his party said, time and again, that they would carry out whichever of the two choices gained the most votes. Nobody told the electorate that they were not supposed to vote Leave.

[Manofpride]

MoP I suppose we are very lucky to have an Elitist,dishonest, lazy,racist,homophobic,PM. The man who lost £40million in a garden bridge because Joanna Lumley told him would be a good idea. Still will have plenty of our money no to "spazz up the wall" If you need me to clarify my accusations i will be glad to oblige

No clarification needed, you obviously don't like the man.
It would be like me trying to find positives of being a Forest supporter.
Once we leave and it won't be long now we can all get back to normal!
I'm also happy to leave without a deal, I'd prefer a deal but not a bad deal.