OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I never said you brought it up but as usual you jumped in and commented and I commented on your comment. You really are a strange one.
I think it's better to leave it alone as Mista got all wobbly at the mention of it and I doubt it would be a civilised discussion.
I am happy to discuss but would probably get labelled as a racist just because I don't conform to others idea of what a racist is. Another term by the way that is banded about and has lost its true meaning now.

I’m a ‘strange one’? Pot, kettle and black!
You wrote...’Trump a racist. Proof?’
I provided proof and you promptly want to stop talking about racism.

Neither did I ‘jump in’...I just responded, this is a forum not a dialogue and I don’t think mista got all ‘wobbly’ at all.

Happy to have any civilised discussion about racism at any time. I certainly wouldn’t label anyone a racist without very good cause...e.g. Trump...and I’m not at all sure how it’s ‘lost its true meaning now’.

[mistaram]

I never said you brought it up but as usual you jumped in and commented and I commented on your comment. You really are a strange one.
I think it's better to leave it alone as Mista got all wobbly at the mention of it and I doubt it would be a civilised discussion.
I am happy to discuss but would probably get labelled as a racist just because I don't conform to others idea of what a racist is. Another term by the way that is banded about and has lost its true meaning now.

I never through a wobbly at all if you can't see see that Trump is a racist you clearly have a problem Why don't you make a reasoned argument and come in here and tell us why he's not a racist I could post dozens of things in what he has said and done that make him racist including being sued twice by The Department of Justice for housing discrimination against African/ Americans that cost him millions in compensation But know it's all fake news isn't it It's only six weeks ago he told the world " I'm the least racist person in the world " If you believe that you must believe in the tooth fairy

[Geoff Parkstone]

Tis an intriguing one this. The expression "racism" is one of those "-isms" that has become almost diluted and degraded by overuse and adoption by a generation that has never really been exposed to the real savagery of an -ism. Nowadays every minor slight tends to get accused of being racist/***ist/ageist etc as if it were the worst thing in the world.

I'm old enough to remember good old fashioned 1960s and 1970s "hardcore"racism, the bananas and monkey sounds at football matches etc, and today's occasional blemish fades when compared to that. This is not to justify today's residual -isms, but people nowadays are waaaaaaaaay to sensitive to most of them.

And, incidentally, even 60's hardcore racism has nothing on the "strange fruit" era of the southern states, allegedly preferred by Don's dad. So is Trump racist? By today's standards, yes, but these are the standards of the snowflake. They are not standards that I subscribe to: I'd say he is an elitist, pro white American to the core, but racist? Questionable.

[AngryRam]

I’m a ‘strange one’? Pot, kettle and black!
You wrote...’Trump a racist. Proof?’
I provided proof and you promptly want to stop talking about racism.

Neither did I ‘jump in’...I just responded, this is a forum not a dialogue and I don’t think mista got all ‘wobbly’ at all.

Happy to have any civilised discussion about racism at any time. I certainly wouldn’t label anyone a racist without very good cause...e.g. Trump...and I’m not at all sure how it’s ‘lost its true meaning now’.

Weird just weird.. I said your comments on Trump had merit. You said you never brought it up, I never said you did. You commented, I commented. Can you read?
The word racist is used too quickly and in some cases wrongly attached to some people.

[AngryRam]

Tis an intriguing one this. The expression "racism" is one of those "-isms" that has become almost diluted and degraded by overuse and adoption by a generation that has never really been exposed to the real savagery of an -ism. Nowadays every minor slight tends to get accused of being racist/***ist/ageist etc as if it were the worst thing in the world.

I'm old enough to remember good old fashioned 1960s and 1970s "hardcore"racism, the bananas and monkey sounds at football matches etc, and today's occasional blemish fades when compared to that. This is not to justify today's residual -isms, but people nowadays are waaaaaaaaay to sensitive to most of them.

And, incidentally, even 60's hardcore racism has nothing on the "strange fruit" era of the southern states, allegedly preferred by Don's dad. So is Trump racist? By today's standards, yes, but these are the standards of the snowflake. They are not standards that I subscribe to: I'd say he is an elitist, pro white American to the core, but racist? Questionable.

Exactly..

[AngryRam]

I never through a wobbly at all if you can't see see that Trump is a racist you clearly have a problem Why don't you make a reasoned argument and come in here and tell us why he's not a racist I could post dozens of things in what he has said and done that make him racist including being sued twice by The Department of Justice for housing discrimination against African/ Americans that cost him millions in compensation But know it's all fake news isn't it It's only six weeks ago he told the world " I'm the least racist person in the world " If you believe that you must believe in the tooth fairy

I will just leave this here and let it sink in..

''If you need proof that Trump is a racist in wasting my feckin time debating with you ffs''

Geoff's post sums my view up perfectly..

Mexicans, thieves and rapists.. Factually correct in some cases. Not all of course but a big issue in the USA.
He does and says a lot I don't agree with but the left are quick to use this labelling tactic. The problem with that is hen there is a real racist point to make, it all gets lost. That is a big problem for me.

[ramAnag]

Weird just weird.. I said your comments on Trump had merit. You said you never brought it up, I never said you did. You commented, I commented. Can you read?
The word racist is used too quickly and in some cases wrongly attached to some people.

Same old Angry...same old strategy.
Doesn’t like being challenged so rapidly resorts to rudeness and abuse.
If you want to debate...fine. If you don’t I won’t waste my time and I’ll answer GP’s more articulate point instead.

[ramAnag]

Tis an intriguing one this. The expression "racism" is one of those "-isms" that has become almost diluted and degraded by overuse and adoption by a generation that has never really been exposed to the real savagery of an -ism. Nowadays every minor slight tends to get accused of being racist/***ist/ageist etc as if it were the worst thing in the world.

I'm old enough to remember good old fashioned 1960s and 1970s "hardcore"racism, the bananas and monkey sounds at football matches etc, and today's occasional blemish fades when compared to that. This is not to justify today's residual -isms, but people nowadays are waaaaaaaaay to sensitive to most of them.

And, incidentally, even 60's hardcore racism has nothing on the "strange fruit" era of the southern states, allegedly preferred by Don's dad. So is Trump racist? By today's standards, yes, but these are the standards of the snowflake. They are not standards that I subscribe to: I'd say he is an elitist, pro white American to the core, but racist? Questionable.

In view of the recent incidents involving, amongst others, Stirling and Lukaku it seems a tad naive to regard football related racism as dead.

Inclined to agree that ‘racism’ as a term has suffered from overuse largely by the more extreme element of the PC brigade but it is both a worry and a concern that the President of the USA - arguably the most cosmopolitan country in the world - sees fit to regularly offer negative opinions of others seemingly based on race and racial stereotype.

I’m certain you’ll also agree there was absolutely nothing ‘good’ about the ‘old fashioned hardcore racism’ of the 60’s and 70’s.

[Trickytreesreds]

I worked in HMP for 9 years. Say no to an ethnic and you are racist and a complaint goes in You are then guilty until cleared. It’s things like this that cloud the racism debate and force people to say nothing for fear of being branded. Ask the police in Lancashire.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Im not suggesting there was any good in the 60s and 70s racism, ***ism, homophobism or any -ism in fact.

But today's constant whingeing and labelling as -ist of every minor transgression of action or word just pisses me of, and actually disrespects those who fought against the unacceptable -isms of the past.

I agree that there is a degree of a return to the racial abuse at football matches just now: hopefully a minor blip - maybe influenced by the continued truly racist attitudes shown in parts of eastern Europe, eg Montenegro England game and various Russian matches in Champions / Europa League.

Now the polemecist would suggest that the revival of racial abuse at football might be due to the growing population of Eastern Europeans in the UK. Thus brexit will result in a decrease in racism in british society.. No, there doesnt seem to be a tongue in cheek smiley here

[Geoff Parkstone]

do you like that line bringing us back on topic Adi?

[MadAmster]

Following the storm of comments on various (anti) social media sites, it seems the blinkers are firmly on.

A awful lot of spleen is being vented at Corbyn and 3287 others who voted to take No Deal off the table. What the online venomous appear to be accusing them of is stopping Brexit. Now, I may be wrong so feel free to correct me if I am, but are they really trying to stop Brexit or just the No Deal. The latter I believe.

They aren't "going against the will of the people" as accused but actually looking out for the populace by getting the best possible exit from the EU....... The backstop (aka Brexit In Name Only - "BRINO") only has the UK out of the EU with regard to the decision making process. It is IN everything else including paying the £39Bn divorce bill, including billions more a year to the EU for "free trade", freedom of movement and the customs union. To me that is not Brexit. That situation will last for decades or, more likely, ad infinitum, because it is almost impossible to come up with a solution to the Irish border issue that will satisfy all 28 countries. No Deal is seen by most MPs as akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face which is why they don't want it. Their job is to do what they feel is in the best interests of the country and their constituents. That so many of them seem hell bent on losing their current job in about 6 weeks by stpping No Deal is food for thought. They want to stop something they think is bad for the country and are prepared to get the "sack" for trying to get something better.........

There will be some who want to stop the whole shebang completely. The majority want Brexit as that became policy after the referendum. Just not at any price.

[mistaram]

Following the storm of comments on various (anti) social media sites, it seems the blinkers are firmly on.

A awful lot of spleen is being vented at Corbyn and 3287 others who voted to take No Deal off the table. What the online venomous appear to be accusing them of is stopping Brexit. Now, I may be wrong so feel free to correct me if I am, but are they really trying to stop Brexit or just the No Deal. The latter I believe.

They aren't "going against the will of the people" as accused but actually looking out for the populace by getting the best possible exit from the EU....... The backstop (aka Brexit In Name Only - "BRINO") only has the UK out of the EU with regard to the decision making process. It is IN everything else including paying the £39Bn divorce bill, including billions more a year to the EU for "free trade", freedom of movement and the customs union. To me that is not Brexit. That situation will last for decades or, more likely, ad infinitum, because it is almost impossible to come up with a solution to the Irish border issue that will satisfy all 28 countries. No Deal is seen by most MPs as akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face which is why they don't want it. Their job is to do what they feel is in the best interests of the country and their constituents. That so many of them seem hell bent on losing their current job in about 6 weeks by stpping No Deal is food for thought. They want to stop something they think is bad for the country and are prepared to get the "sack" for trying to get something better.........

There will be some who want to stop the whole shebang completely. The majority want Brexit as that became policy after the referendum. Just not at any price.

Spot on MA but we now know who the government are trying to shift the blame to

[mistaram]

I will just leave this here and let it sink in..

''If you need proof that Trump is a racist in wasting my feckin time debating with you ffs''

Geoff's post sums my view up perfectly..

Mexicans, thieves and rapists.. Factually correct in some cases. Not all of course but a big issue in the USA.
He does and says a lot I don't agree with but the left are quick to use this labelling tactic. The problem with that is hen there is a real racist point to make, it all gets lost. That is a big problem for me.

Yes we will have to beg to suffer If your not prepared to counter my argument and put a case for Trump not being a racist Personally in not interested in what people accepted in 60/70s we live in 2019 now They used to send boys up chimneys but doubt we except it nowadays

[ramAnag]

Im not suggesting there was any good in the 60s and 70s racism, ***ism, homophobism or any -ism in fact.

But today's constant whingeing and labelling as -ist of every minor transgression of action or word just pisses me of, and actually disrespects those who fought against the unacceptable -isms of the past.

I agree that there is a degree of a return to the racial abuse at football matches just now: hopefully a minor blip - maybe influenced by the continued truly racist attitudes shown in parts of eastern Europe, eg Montenegro England game and various Russian matches in Champions / Europa League.

Now the polemecist would suggest that the revival of racial abuse at football might be due to the growing population of Eastern Europeans in the UK. Thus brexit will result in a decrease in racism in british society.. No, there doesnt seem to be a tongue in cheek smiley here

I know you weren’t...it was just a reference to your phrase, ‘good old fashioned hardcore racism’ which I too remember all too well from the 60’s and the 70’s.

It is easy to get pissed off with those who use any excuse to play the racist/ageist/***ist card, but that shouldn’t, imo, stop us from calling genuine examples out wherever they occur.

Very much agree with MA’s appraisal of the Brexit situation. Thought Johnson was dreadful on Monday night and Rees-Mogg just looked the arrogant prat he is in Parliament last night.

Heard an analogy about ‘no deal’ Brexit from someone on the radio today...he described it as someone trying to buy a property but not getting their own way and then threatening to burn their own house down in response. Very apt I thought.