OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Okay...in general.

Angry first...’you’re really comparing my posts with Swalesdale’s?’

Not entirely...imo opinion Swale is more knowledgable about Brexit than you...and of course I agree with him more than you so that helps. In terms of ‘going off on one’...absolutely...you are capable of being equally intense/hostile/vitriolic whatever you want to call it, but as you say...let others judge, let’s have a referendum.

As regards the teacher bit...it’s just f’in boring and utterly irrelevant. It’s like the two of you have never got over some bad experience at school, I don’t know and neither do I really care, but if you do read it he makes a generally negative comment about my career choice and the mindset of the teaching profession. Why? How’s it remotely relevant.

Adi...how can the electorate not be better informed? Take this forum as a microcosm if you like...approaching 5500 post since the Referendum...never mentioned beforehand.
In June 2016 people had a simple - ‘advisory’ - choice. Leave or Stay...without going over old ground we didn’t know the conditions of a withdrawal and, as a result, the consequences couldn’t be known either.
The nation has, sadly and regrettably, been obsessed with the issue ever since...how can they not know more now?

Tricky...stop ranting and start answering. So far you’ve come up with...’it’s what the EU want for a start’ followed by another rant, followed by ‘we’ve had a vote, it’s election time’.

That though is the point. A General Election is unlikely to resolve the issue. The result will almost certainly be another hung Parliament with what’s left of the Tories, the DUP and possibly a small number of new Brexit Party MP’s v Labour, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens, the Scots, the Welsh and the old ‘one nation’ Tories. It will, in all likelihood, lead to the balance of power lying again in the hands of a tiny minority. That just leads to greater division.

If you want a single issue election based on Brexit it’s called a Referendum...but that’s what you’re frightened of.
As MoP, the originator of this thread, recently and honestly admitted...he doesn’t want another referendum because he fears defeat.
If that’s the case, are you still claiming to represent the ‘will of the people’ forty months on?

oh behave yourself.

If a referendum, was done on the lines of what ADI suggested, it still wouldn't saitisfy most you,

If oit came out as no deal or with a deal.
The same screaming would begin again.
No deal is catastrophe, a deal isn't what remainers want.

You've had your vote and it was MADE INTO LAW!!!!
So shove the advisory stuff. Did you even watch the videos?
It was all there as plain as day. Perhaps you put you fingers in your ears going, la la la la laaaaaaaaaaaaaaar?

So no, I'm frightened of nothing. Get it done.
Either the EU deals, or stuff em.

We'd pay £6 billion tarriffs, they'd pay £14 billion. what would you do?

[ramAnag]

oh behave yourself.

If a referendum, was done on the lines of what ADI suggested, it still wouldn't saitisfy most you,

If oit came out as no deal or with a deal.
The same screaming would begin again.
No deal is catastrophe, a deal isn't what remainers want.

You've had your vote and it was MADE INTO LAW!!!!
So shove the advisory stuff. Did you even watch the videos?
It was all there as plain as day. Perhaps you put you fingers in your ears going, la la la la laaaaaaaaaaaaaaar?

So no, I'm frightened of nothing. Get it done.
Either the EU deals, or stuff em.

We'd pay £6 billion tarriffs, they'd pay £14 billion. what would you do?

Yet more smokescreen.

‘I’m frightened of nothing’...how very macho of you. Have to admit...I am...snakes, psychopaths and and an ERG driven Brexit to name but three.

Who’s talking about Adi’s version? Obviously you can’t have four or five options and I took his comment as being tongue in cheek.

No...things have become too polarised and the one thing we agree on is that this can’t go on endlessly.
Seems to me that a ‘no deal’ is now against the law...although Johnson doesn’t appear to recognise that...so let him come back with his deal - whatever it may be - and put it to the people.

Let’s know the terms and the consequences and put it to the electorate.
Johnson’s new Deal or Remain...what’s wrong with that?

[mistaram]

To be fair I don’t think Tricky plays the teacher card much. Is that really a personal insult? More a bit of fun really in a thread that gets way too serious at times.
Swaledale however takes to a completely different level. Mista also pushes the boundaries at times. If myself or Tricky went down that road you lot would melt down.
I am sure Tricky, like me just grin when we read that crap. We don’t get all hissy.

So what boundaries do I push I certainly have no dislike of Tricky at all He has his opinion I have mind I've ask him what he thinks are i n the confidential Yellowhammer papers if he choses not to tell me ,then not much I can do about it Just draw my own conclusions about him I can assure there is definitely nothing you or Tricky could say or do would make me go into meltdown I love a debate I have not got a clue who you are and you don't know who I am

[AngryRam]

Okay...in general.

Angry first...’you’re really comparing my posts with Swalesdale’s?’

Not entirely...imo opinion Swale is more knowledgable about Brexit than you...and of course I agree with him more than you so that helps. In terms of ‘going off on one’...absolutely...you are capable of being equally intense/hostile/vitriolic whatever you want to call it, but as you say...let others judge, let’s have a referendum.

As regards the teacher bit...it’s just f’in boring and utterly irrelevant. It’s like the two of you have never got over some bad experience at school, I don’t know and neither do I really care, but if you do read it he makes a generally negative comment about my career choice and the mindset of the teaching profession. Why? How’s it remotely relevant.

Adi...how can the electorate not be better informed? Take this forum as a microcosm if you like...approaching 5500 post since the Referendum...never mentioned beforehand.
In June 2016 people had a simple - ‘advisory’ - choice. Leave or Stay...without going over old ground we didn’t know the conditions of a withdrawal and, as a result, the consequences couldn’t be known either.
The nation has, sadly and regrettably, been obsessed with the issue ever since...how can they not know more now?

Tricky...stop ranting and start answering. So far you’ve come up with...’it’s what the EU want for a start’ followed by another rant, followed by ‘we’ve had a vote, it’s election time’.

That though is the point. A General Election is unlikely to resolve the issue. The result will almost certainly be another hung Parliament with what’s left of the Tories, the DUP and possibly a small number of new Brexit Party MP’s v Labour, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens, the Scots, the Welsh and the old ‘one nation’ Tories. It will, in all likelihood, lead to the balance of power lying again in the hands of a tiny minority. That just leads to greater division.

If you want a single issue election based on Brexit it’s called a Referendum...but that’s what you’re frightened of.
As MoP, the originator of this thread, recently and honestly admitted...he doesn’t want another referendum because he fears defeat.
If that’s the case, are you still claiming to represent the ‘will of the people’ forty months on?

Okay so what part of the last paragraph of Swaldales post 5413 do you find acceptable. We are not talking about who knows more about Brexit but abuse in posts.. I know what I know about Brexit, I sit on panels discussing the bloody thing. I have no idea what Swaledale does, I don’t care.. That was not the point BUT again you missed the whole thing.
The teacher thing.. Grow a pair.. Do I get all hissy when you call me a van driver? No, as it’s not abusive it’s a bit of banter. No problem.. I was a truck driver once and proud of it. Yet as soon as teacher is mentions, you melt. Have a look in the mirror fella, it’s really not that important. BUT maybe I should start calling you racist, nazi, stupid, tosser.. You could then rightly start to complain about my words.. Swaledale is like a little child who can’t get his words out quick enough and then melts into stupid comments which make the majority look at him and shake their head. It’s ridiculous really, good points are lost and he probably thinks he is winning the argument. Swaledale is everything wrong with this whole debate.. Everything.
Even when Tricky and Adi answer your ‘question’, you really don’t take in what they have said.
So teach.. 1/10 for attention 0/10 for content.

[Geoff Parkstone]

A lorry driver, Angry. So did you eat Yorkies? Whereas rA tucked into dolly mixtures or jelly tots?

[ramAnag]

Okay so what part of the last paragraph of Swaldales post 5413 do you find acceptable. We are not talking about who knows more about Brexit but abuse in posts.. I know what I know about Brexit, I sit on panels discussing the bloody thing. I have no idea what Swaledale does, I don’t care.. That was not the point BUT again you missed the whole thing.
The teacher thing.. Grow a pair.. Do I get all hissy when you call me a van driver? No, as it’s not abusive it’s a bit of banter. No problem.. I was a truck driver once and proud of it. Yet as soon as teacher is mentions, you melt. Have a look in the mirror fella, it’s really not that important. BUT maybe I should start calling you racist, nazi, stupid, tosser.. You could then rightly start to complain about my words.. Swaledale is like a little child who can’t get his words out quick enough and then melts into stupid comments which make the majority look at him and shake their head. It’s ridiculous really, good points are lost and he probably thinks he is winning the argument. Swaledale is everything wrong with this whole debate.. Everything.
Even when Tricky and Adi answer your ‘question’, you really don’t take in what they have said.
So teach.. 1/10 for attention 0/10 for content.

Take it up with Swale, not up to me to judge his ‘style’...until he attacks me.

It’s my opinion that I agree much more with Swale than you on the subject of Brexit. That doesn’t mean I think you know nothing and to the best of my knowledge I haven’t called you, or anyone else, a ‘racist, nazi or a stupid tosser’, although I have been called a few things by you. Wasn’t I some sort of ‘stupid muppet’ last week for daring to disagree over Brentford?

Neither Tricky nor Adi have answered the question, which remains essentially - why a General Election and not a Referendum - they just recycle the same old story...’we’ve had one...why have another?’

I don’t ‘melt’ at all ‘as soon as teacher is mentioned’...I just find it intriguing as to why you and Tricky feel the need. I do find some of the characteristics that you both attribute to teachers to be a tad irritating and juvenile but overall I just fail to see the relevance and I honestly couldn’t care less whether you’re a van driver, a lorry driver or a head of European operations IT geek...any comments I’ve made in that direction are just retaliatory banter...nothing more, with nothing derogatory intended about any of those roles.

Don’t agree that Swale is ‘everything wrong with this whole debate. Everything’.
In my opinion he speaks a great deal of sense. He may be outspoken and he may get frustrated with the stubborn refusal of some to acknowledge the national self harm aspect of Brexit, but that’s up to him and at least he’s interesting.
If he ‘oversteps the mark’ then that’s up to the mod/s not me, but he sure as hell has been on the receiving end of some stuff as well.
It certainly isn’t all one way but that’s up to those involved.

[AdiSalisbury]

Werther's original and wine gums for RA, Fishermens friends for Angry, Crayola for Swale

[Trickytreesreds]

Werther's original and wine gums for RA, Fishermens friends for Angry, Crayola for Swale

Don't give me liqorice allsorts.
I hate all coloureds (apparently)

[AngryRam]

Take it up with Swale, not up to me to judge his ‘style’...until he attacks me.

It’s my opinion that I agree much more with Swale than you on the subject of Brexit. That doesn’t mean I think you know nothing and to the best of my knowledge I haven’t called you, or anyone else, a ‘racist, nazi or a stupid tosser’, although I have been called a few things by you. Wasn’t I some sort of ‘stupid muppet’ last week for daring to disagree over Brentford?

Neither Tricky nor Adi have answered the question, which remains essentially - why a General Election and not a Referendum - they just recycle the same old story...’we’ve had one...why have another?’

I don’t ‘melt’ at all ‘as soon as teacher is mentioned’...I just find it intriguing as to why you and Tricky feel the need. I do find some of the characteristics that you both attribute to teachers to be a tad irritating and juvenile but overall I just fail to see the relevance and I honestly couldn’t care less whether you’re a van driver, a lorry driver or a head of European operations IT geek...any comments I’ve made in that direction are just retaliatory banter...nothing more, with nothing derogatory intended about any of those roles.

Don’t agree that Swale is ‘everything wrong with this whole debate. Everything’.
In my opinion he speaks a great deal of sense. He may be outspoken and he may get frustrated with the stubborn refusal of some to acknowledge the national self harm aspect of Brexit, but that’s up to him and at least he’s interesting.
If he ‘oversteps the mark’ then that’s up to the mod/s not me, but he sure as hell has been on the receiving end of some stuff as well.
It certainly isn’t all one way but that’s up to those involved.

But again you miss the whole point. I do t care if you all me a van driver. Do you really read anything that is posted on here?
I worry for you I really do. You are all over the place.

[mistaram]

40 months of misinformation and propaganda - more informed, yes, better informed, no.

Please tell us what all this misinformation is . That's quite a sweeping statement please enlighten us

[ramAnag]

Sorry...there’s me thinking the ‘whole point’ of this thread is about Brexit and not about what you judge acceptable or otherwise as banter.

Tbh, the whole personal aspect...Tricky said this and Swale said that and ‘I worry about you’...is too boring for words, so let’s stick to the topic.

Why do Leavers insist on a General Election rather than a Referendum? There’s at least three of you who should be able to cobble together a proper answer.

[AdiSalisbury]

Sorry...there’s me thinking the ‘whole point’ of this thread is about Brexit and not about what you judge acceptable or otherwise as banter.

Tbh, the whole personal aspect...Tricky said this and Swale said that and ‘I worry about you’...is too boring for words, so let’s stick to the topic.

Why do Leavers insist on a General Election rather than a Referendum? There’s at least three of you who should be able to cobble together a proper answer.

I don't insist on either, couldn't really care if either are called. I only borderline voted leave, could easily have voted remain. Just not swallowed up by all the hysterics. More important matters to concentrate on.

[Trickytreesreds]

Sorry...there’s me thinking the ‘whole point’ of this thread is about Brexit and not about what you judge acceptable or otherwise as banter.

Tbh, the whole personal aspect...Tricky said this and Swale said that and ‘I worry about you’...is too boring for words, so let’s stick to the topic.

Why do Leavers insist on a General Election rather than a Referendum? There’s at least three of you who should be able to cobble together a proper answer.

I've given you one FFS.

A general election is where we are at.
We voted leave, we were all told this was it. No second chance, no remit, no cobbling. Tories/Labour/Lib dems.

If a real negotiator, had gone in and not tried to stab everyone in the back. It would have been done 2 years ago.

However. She cocked it up, so NO DEAL/THE DEFAULT
Should have been there for all to see. That isn't you and me, it is the EU directive on article 50.
The vote was legalised and article 50 ratified.
The decision WAS MADE!!!

So, all that is left now is the dead lock. Pick a party. Who ever gets in can apply their manifesto.
There's your second referendum. It's how this country operates.

Now why are you scared of an election?
Read this slowly and carefully.

[ramAnag]

I don't insist on either, couldn't really care if either are called. I only borderline voted leave, could easily have voted remain. Just not swallowed up by all the hysterics. More important matters to concentrate on.

Okay...sadly, imo, however tedious and boring it is - and I agree with you, it is - few things are likely to have more impact on our lives and those of our children for the foreseeable.

One down then...already know it’s because MoP thinks they’d lose, so it seems to be over to the ‘dynamic duo’ for an answer then.

[ramAnag]

I've given you one FFS.

A general election is where we are at.
We voted leave, we were all told this was it. No second chance, no remit, no cobbling. Tories/Labour/Lib dems.

If a real negotiator, had gone in and not tried to stab everyone in the back. It would have been done 2 years ago.

However. She cocked it up, so NO DEAL/THE DEFAULT
Should have been there for all to see. That isn't you and me, it is the EU directive on article 50.
The vote was legalised and article 50 ratified.
The decision WAS MADE!!!

So, all that is left now is the dead lock. Pick a party. Who ever gets in can apply their manifesto.
There's your second referendum. It's how this country operates.

Now why are you scared of an election?
Read this slowly and carefully.

‘A General Election is where we’re at’. Brilliant! Great answer.

That’s the question...why an Election and not a Referendum?

The way the negotiations have been conducted is no longer relevant so stop banging on about it...has no relevance to the question.

I’m not scared of an election but as I’ve now said time and time again...what is the point of a General Election when this is not really a matter of Party politics for Labour and the Conservatives?

One last time...a General Election is likely to lead to another hung Parliament...Pro Brexit Tories, the DUP and any Brexit Party MP’s who might get elected v Labour, Remain Tories, Lib Dems, Greens, Welsh and Scots. Where will that get us? Another ‘hung Parliament’ and no Brexit decision...that’s where.

That is my objection to a General Election at this stage and I can’t say it any other way. You can’t ‘pick a Party’, as you put it, on this single issue and we shouldn’t be electing a Government for the next five years based on one issue, however important.

You can however say ‘Johnson’s Deal vs Remain’ in a Referendum. The informed outcome dictates our relationship with Europe and you then have an election later over all the other crucial issues that have been forgotten for so long.
It’s not perfect but it is a way forward. It’s your opportunity for the BP/Tory (well some of them) alliance that you have such confidence in...a way out of the ‘deadlock’...so why the reluctance?