OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I've given you one FFS.

A general election is where we are at.
We voted leave, we were all told this was it. No second chance, no remit, no cobbling. Tories/Labour/Lib dems.

If a real negotiator, had gone in and not tried to stab everyone in the back. It would have been done 2 years ago.

However. She cocked it up, so NO DEAL/THE DEFAULT
Should have been there for all to see. That isn't you and me, it is the EU directive on article 50.
The vote was legalised and article 50 ratified.
The decision WAS MADE!!!

So, all that is left now is the dead lock. Pick a party. Who ever gets in can apply their manifesto.
There's your second referendum. It's how this country operates.

Now why are you scared of an election?
Read this slowly and carefully.

‘A General Election is where we’re at’. Brilliant! Great answer.

That’s the question...why an Election and not a Referendum?

The way the negotiations have been conducted is no longer relevant so stop banging on about it...has no relevance to the question.

I’m not scared of an election but as I’ve now said time and time again...what is the point of a General Election when this is not really a matter of Party politics for Labour and the Conservatives?

One last time...a General Election is likely to lead to another hung Parliament...Pro Brexit Tories, the DUP and any Brexit Party MP’s who might get elected v Labour, Remain Tories, Lib Dems, Greens, Welsh and Scots. Where will that get us? Another ‘hung Parliament’ and no Brexit decision...that’s where.

That is my objection to a General Election at this stage and I can’t say it any other way. You can’t ‘pick a Party’, as you put it, on this single issue and we shouldn’t be electing a Government for the next five years based on one issue, however important.

You can however say ‘Johnson’s Deal vs Remain’ in a Referendum. The informed outcome dictates our relationship with Europe and you then have an election later over all the other crucial issues that have been forgotten for so long.
It’s not perfect but it is a way forward. It’s your opportunity for the BP/Tory (well some of them) alliance that you have such confidence in...a way out of the ‘deadlock’...so why the reluctance?

[AdiSalisbury]

Okay...sadly, imo, however tedious and boring it is - and I agree with you, it is - few things are likely to have more impact on our lives and those of our children for the foreseeable.

OK, so how does another vote improve the life of us, or our children, for the foreseeable future? It doesn't does it? Just drags the saga out further, which will damage us, and our children's children's foreseeable future. I don't see any advantage to another vote for anyone, regardless of the result.

[AngryRam]

Question for the second referendum believers.
As you did not like the fact that everyone did not vote so therefore it was null and void and also I have heard of many occasions that it should have been a two thirds majority to even be considered. Would the same rules apply on a second referendum? Remain would have to win by a two thirds majority in order to overturn the leave win in Ref 1? Or would miraculously a straight majority be okay with you this time? What would your position be if only 70% voted and you won by a slim margin? All okay then ?

[Andy_Faber]

why an Election and not a Referendum?

Dead easy answer on that one - unlike a referendum, an election is not advisory, so the losing side, whoever that might be, couldn't bleat on ad infinitum about it being so

On a related note, I note that at least one other person who would vote remain should another referendum be called still feels so strongly about the will of the people that she is part of the push to leave - trouble is its Nicky Morgan, who looks as mad as a rabid horse with those superglued-open or heavily cocaine-influenced (allegedly) eyes

[mistaram]

Question for the second referendum believers.
As you did not like the fact that everyone did not vote so therefore it was null and void and also I have heard of many occasions that it should have been a two thirds majority to even be considered. Would the same rules apply on a second referendum? Remain would have to win by a two thirds majority in order to overturn the leave win in Ref 1? Or would miraculously a straight majority be okay with you this time? What would your position be if only 70% voted and you won by a slim margin? All okay then ?

That's totally irrelevant Angry because this time it will be determined what percentage will be required to win or lose Where you have got the two thirds from his knows If dimwit Cameron has thought of it before we probably wouldn't be in this mess But he was that confident people would reject leaving He never bothered He's even admitted he was certain the Lib Dems would veto him having a vote. But they didn't veto did they All this just to pacify a few extreme right Tories

[swaledale]

I've given you one FFS.

A general election is where we are at.
We voted leave, we were all told this was it. No second chance, no remit, no cobbling. Tories/Labour/Lib dems.

If a real negotiator, had gone in and not tried to stab everyone in the back. It would have been done 2 years ago.

However. She cocked it up, so NO DEAL/THE DEFAULT
Should have been there for all to see. That isn't you and me, it is the EU directive on article 50.
The vote was legalised and article 50 ratified.
The decision WAS MADE!!!

So, all that is left now is the dead lock. Pick a party. Who ever gets in can apply their manifesto.
There's your second referendum. It's how this country operates.

Now why are you scared of an election?
Read this slowly and carefully.

How did May cock it up? She was trying to reach an agreement that was fair to ALL in the country and bythe way in case you hadn't noticed, we haven't even got to a deal yet, it was a withdrawal agreement, an interim stage which allows the Uk to leave the EU and then begin the process of negotiating a deal and sorting the complicated issues which connect us with the EU!

Thats where the Brexiteers are lying when they claim a clean break as in no deal is either possible or never mind desirable, funny how you demonstrate a total ignorance of the detail and subtlety of this - its nothing like simply resigning ones club membership and it will take years to achieve in full.

But of course the Brexit supporters didn't say any of that during the referendum did they? No they claimed doing a deal would be simple and we would retain those things which were of benefit and ditch what we didn't like, regrettably life isn't like that as anybody with even half brain power could work out, but not apparently you!

****ing hell, why do i bother even replying to you posts? Over the course of this thread, you have churned out to varying degrees a stream of xenophobic, bigotted, ignorant crap, backed up by sources which to put it simply a 10 year old wouldn't give credence to!

Its a complete waste of time actually responding to you, your an idiot of the highest order no hope no thought process and naive with it, yet you clearly thin you have a grasp of reality! I find you so funny and so utterly sad at the same time.

[ramAnag]

OK, so how does another vote improve the life of us, or our children, for the foreseeable future? It doesn't does it? Just drags the saga out further, which will damage us, and our children's children's foreseeable future. I don't see any advantage to another vote for anyone, regardless of the result.

Depends on your standpoint I suppose Adi. The aim would be to resolve the issue. Obviously I would hope for a Remain result which, imo, would enhance the likelihood of our nation having a more secure and prosperous future. You as a self confessed ‘borderline’ Leave voter probably differ as far as that outcome is concerned.

[swaledale]

QED I rest my case m'lud

You have no case because you simply haven't a clue what your talking about! Talking about no deal having to be on the table, when the EU know that it would be a disaster for the country and no sane person, unless of course your a rich hedge fund manager betting several billion on that disaster happening?

And where does Johnson get his financial backing? Oh most comes from people involved in hedge Funds that are betting billions on a no deal! Why is Ress-Mogg so keen on no deal? Oh he happens to own a hedge fund (now locted in the EU!) which stands to make billions betting on it. Who is behind Farage? Oh yes financiers (some of them very dodgy!) who stad to make billions from a no deal scenario!

How thick do you have to be not to understand that none of these people give a **** about you?

[AdiSalisbury]

Depends on your standpoint I suppose Adi. The aim would be to resolve the issue. Obviously I would hope for a Remain result which, imo, would enhance the likelihood of our nation having a more secure and prosperous future. You as a self confessed ‘borderline’ Leave voter probably differ as far as that outcome is concerned.

Then you, respectfully, have missed the point.

[Andy_Faber]

How did May cock it up?

She cocked it up by holding a second election, being **** at campaigning and listening too much to advisors who assured her that, yes don't worry folk will understand why you want to bring foxhunting back and and intuitively get that you are doing the right thing in changing the way care is funded.

[AngryRam]

Then you, respectfully, have missed the point.

Don’t think he has ever hit one..

[ramAnag]

Question for the second referendum believers.
As you did not like the fact that everyone did not vote so therefore it was null and void and also I have heard of many occasions that it should have been a two thirds majority to even be considered. Would the same rules apply on a second referendum? Remain would have to win by a two thirds majority in order to overturn the leave win in Ref 1? Or would miraculously a straight majority be okay with you this time? What would your position be if only 70% voted and you won by a slim margin? All okay then ?

Ah...more Leave avoidance strategy. When asked a dead straight question respond with another question. Old and unsubtle trick.

You’re right...the ideal referendum would be participated in by the whole of the electorate. It happens in other countries apparently but is probably naively idealistic to attempt here in the current circumstances.

Answer is, I don’t know and it’s not up to me. I imagine a great deal of very careful thought would have to go in to the exact conditions. I’d also point out that it wouldn’t be the second but the third Referendum on this subject.

Hopefully the vastly increased publicity regarding any ‘endgame’ referendum would ensure greater involvement on the part of the electorate so my opinion is...if the conditions were properly spelt out and 70% voted then the majority, either way and however slim, would have to be respected.

The question though remains unanswered. Adi isn’t really that bothered. Tricky has come up with a frankly daft response...’because a General Election is where we are at’ and you’ve avoided it altogether by asking another question.

Okay...no one said it would be straightforward but in a ‘Johnson’s new deal v Remain’ referendum at least you’d have an answer.
Would you get that with a General Election? Given the current level and form of division and for the reasons I have given time and time again, almost certainly not.
So...yet again...why, in a single issue question, a General Election rather than a Referendum? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

[ramAnag]

Then you, respectfully, have missed the point.

Which is?

[swaledale]

Ah...more Leave avoidance strategy. When asked a dead straight question respond with another question. Old and unsubtle trick.

You’re right...the ideal referendum would be participated in by the whole of the electorate. It happens in other countries apparently but is probably naively idealistic to attempt here in the current circumstances.

Answer is, I don’t know and it’s not up to me. I imagine a great deal of very careful thought would have to go in to the exact conditions. I’d also point out that it wouldn’t be the second but the third Referendum on this subject.

Hopefully the vastly increased publicity regarding any ‘endgame’ referendum would ensure greater involvement on the part of the electorate so my opinion is...if the conditions were properly spelt out and 70% voted then the majority, either way and however slim, would have to be respected.

The question though remains unanswered. Adi isn’t really that bothered. Tricky has come up with a frankly daft response...’because a General Election is where we are at’ and you’ve avoided it altogether by asking another question.

Okay...no one said it would be straightforward but in a ‘Johnson’s new deal v Remain’ referendum at least you’d have an answer.
Would you get that with a General Election? Given the current level and form of division and for the reasons I have given time and time again, almost certainly not.
So...yet again...why, in a single issue question, a General Election rather than a Referendum? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

Of course an election wont resolve the matter, its a single issue and an election will be clouded by a myriad other matters.

The only way to resolve it is for there to be a second referendum, with either leave with an agreed deal or remain on the ballot paper, it being made legally binding on any government and a minimum threshold either way.

Those who espouse no deal should be ignored for the obvious reasons which have been stated on this thread as anyone who supports this direction clearly is deranged and lost any sense of reality!

All an election will do is result in the same deadlock we have now.

[swaledale]

She cocked it up by holding a second election, being **** at campaigning and listening too much to advisors who assured her that, yes don't worry folk will understand why you want to bring foxhunting back and and intuitively get that you are doing the right thing in changing the way care is funded.

Yes I will concur on that, the election after she had said she wouldn't have one was a mistake, but then thats what happens when politicians listen to their shadowy advisors. Thats what will happen if we ahve an election before another referendum, the issue will be clouded by so called election bribes, which is obviously Johnson's strategy, though I don't see it working.