OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

rA, just because there are equally bad or worse people around on the other side, that doesn't make Abbot acceptable.

I neither want to be ruled by an elitist right winger, such as those named by you, nor by a bumbling token together with an idealist pensioner child of the 60s.

I may agree in part with the softer inner edges of both main parties, but wouldn't it be nicer to find that centrist option by taking those inner edges of either side and gluing them together.

The libdems simply lack credibility, they may gain traction as the party of remain in December, but once Brexit is put to bed one way or the other, and we get back to "normal politics" they will go back into their lonely shell and hibernate.

They had their fleeting momentary chance to shine under Clegg but blew it. Someone needs to take British politics by the scruff of the neck and shake it until the 2 party system is destroyed and sensible centrism replaces our current 2 extremist options, neither of which I want to see anywhere near power.

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh here we go on your old hobby horse again - so she campaigns for black people as a black person, so what? I do find your poor down trodden little white boy approach symptomatic of typical of a racist bigot who can't quite believe that there may just may be something justified in calling out how black people have been disgracefully treated historically.


As for Abbot only being where she is because she is black and if she had been white she'd wouldn't be there, please explain how the Tories have promoted Truss, Duncan Smith ("the quiet man"!), Francoise, Barclay not to mention Johnson, who in interviews generally waffles, makes outrageous statements that are plainly not true and is still currently very much alive despite having said he would "die in a ditch" rather than not have Brexit on 31 October?

The fact is that there are numerous politicians who are vastly more stupid and incompetent than Abbott, and who shamelessly campaign and lobby for their own interest groups, your only moaning because she is black whch shows you up exactly for what you are, though to be fair, there are numerous posts in this thread where you have quoted utter bilge to support your neo fascist views.

Lol, just come out with it, you're a momentum lover. Don't hide in the closet.

You have just washed over the point again. If any MP had been as openly racist as this woman about black people, there would have been riots.
Of course it's people like you, that scream when this is pointed out. That these are the views of a neo fascist.

You know what white people are like/Finnish nurse shouldn't be near black people.
Sounds openly racist to me and goes against everything you preach of your European utopia.

So no, you commie arsehole. Do one.
Your bilge of trying to slam everyone down who doesn't agree with you, is pathetic.
One minute you are bragging about your superior lifestyle, then next you play the voice of the common man.
Con artist to the extreme. You're no better than DiCaprio and kin with the eco warrior stance.

[MadAmster]

Maybe you’re right there...bit like Nigel Mirage’s ‘pint and a fag...man of the people’ facade.

But isn’t such ‘trickery’ much more worrying and sinister than Abbott’s apparent incompetence?

We run the risk of electing a proven liar who - in your words - is a ‘right wing elitist’ with no concern for the people. That, to me, is a far greater concern than anything provided by Abbott.

That's just it, neither of the 2 main parties would command my vote if I had one.

BoJo et al would sell the UK's soul to the US and the 1% would benefit to the detriment of the rest of us.

Corbyn et al would open the flood gates and let in huge numbers of immigrants into a country that already has 1.36M out of work. Not meant as a racist comment but as a reminder that many of them would not speak English, not have skills that the UK requires, not be able to sustain themselves and any family they might have. More pressure on the state.

LibDems are merely yellow Tories..... Tories in disguise. All that is left are the pigeon hole parties. The interest group parties, Greens, Animal rights and the nationalist parties...... and Farridge's lot.

Not a lot to choose there.

[ramAnag]

rA, just because there are equally bad or worse people around on the other side, that doesn't make Abbot acceptable.

I neither want to be ruled by an elitist right winger, such as those named by you, nor by a bumbling token together with an idealist pensioner child of the 60s.

I may agree in part with the softer inner edges of both main parties, but wouldn't it be nicer to find that centrist option by taking those inner edges of either side and gluing them together.

The libdems simply lack credibility, they may gain traction as the party of remain in December, but once Brexit is put to bed one way or the other, and we get back to "normal politics" they will go back into their lonely shell and hibernate.

They had their fleeting momentary chance to shine under Clegg but blew it. Someone needs to take British politics by the scruff of the neck and shake it until the 2 party system is destroyed and sensible centrism replaces our current 2 extremist options, neither of which I want to see anywhere near power.

Neither is it a reason to concentrate on the failings of just one individual, Parky.

Either way...we seem to be coming full circle.
On the second day of this thread (4/7/16!) I wrote that I would support...

‘...a genuine coalition of the best of Labour, Liberals, the one nation Tories, the Welsh, the SNP and the Greens...with policies designed around common sense, compassion and concern for the well being of the whole of the ‘UK’.

Sadly, since then, many of the ‘one nation Tories’ seem to have resigned/retired but it would at least seem that you and I now agree.

Tricky...Swale maybe many things and you clearly don’t approve of him anymore than you approve of me, but calling him a ‘momentum lover’ and a ‘commie arsehole’ are, imo, two of the most ridiculous things to have ever appeared on this forum. Grow up.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"Neither is it a reason to concentrate on the failings of just one individual, Parky."

It is when the topic of conversation is that individual. To use the opportunity to slate others in a conversation about one person is obfuscatory at best

[Geoff Parkstone]

Example

Lets discuss the failings of Kelle Roos as a keeper, which is featured elsethread.

How would it be relevant to, for example, comment on the fact that Christy Pym, Richard O'Donnell and Kyle Letheren arent very good either? Adds nothing to the discussion.

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky...Swale maybe many things and you clearly don’t approve of him anymore than you approve of me, but calling him a ‘momentum lover’ and a ‘commie arsehole’ are, imo, two of the most ridiculous things to have ever appeared on this forum. Grow up.[/QUOTE]

Swale is by far the most insulting poster on here. Yet you tell me to "grow up"
Your opinions are at best insulting everyone on the right. Dismissive and non commital on the left, whilst telling everyone your a middle ground Liberal.
.Seems to me, that means a Liberal will side with the Right if it suits, But the Left can help with your rhetoric, but you can't be seen to back them.

[ramAnag]

Example

Lets discuss the failings of Kelle Roos as a keeper, which is featured elsethread.

How would it be relevant to, for example, comment on the fact that Christy Pym, Richard O'Donnell and Kyle Letheren arent very good either? Adds nothing to the discussion.

Aside from the fact that I had no idea who Pym, O’Donnell and Letheren were that’s not really a fair comparison.

Context is everything. MA suggested, not unreasonably I accept, that Diane Abbott would be an obstacle to him voting Labour.
I argued that there were equally unfavourable and possibly more sinister obstacles preventing anyone from voting Tory so criticising Abbott’s competence was hardly a major factor in the context of a GE.

To take your comparison further...there is absolutely no point in discussing Kelle Roos in comparison with three lesser known keepers who play elsewhere. The only worthwhile comparison is with Hamer, Mitchell and possibly Carson because they are the current or longer term alternatives.

Following that logic...MA is clearly entitled to criticise Abbott on the basis of her competence but if others on the opposite side - for example Rees-Mogg and Raab - are equally lacking in competence and/or integrity then what is the point of banging on about Abbott?

[ramAnag]

Tricky...Swale maybe many things and you clearly don’t approve of him anymore than you approve of me, but calling him a ‘momentum lover’ and a ‘commie arsehole’ are, imo, two of the most ridiculous things to have ever appeared on this forum. Grow up.

Swale is by far the most insulting poster on here. Yet you tell me to "grow up"
Your opinions are at best insulting everyone on the right. Dismissive and non commital on the left, whilst telling everyone your a middle ground Liberal.
.Seems to me, that means a Liberal will side with the Right if it suits, But the Left can help with your rhetoric, but you can't be seen to back them.[/QUOTE]


Swale has his moments for sure but I doubt he’s the ‘most insulting poster on here’ and he certainly isn’t a ‘commie arsehole’.

I’m perfectly happy for you to regard my comments as insulting to the ‘right’. ‘Right’ is invariably wrong in my book and the further to the ‘right’ the more wrong it becomes.
I’ll make no apology for that but I will qualify it by saying that because I oppose the ‘right’ that doesn’t mean I support the extreme left.
I most certainly don’t. It places me in the centre or somewhere marginally to the left of centre...so what...what’s wrong with that?
If politicians would grow up, abandon their egos and search for constructive coalition to the exclusion of the extremists then the world would be an infinitely better place imo.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Aside from the fact that I had no idea who Pym, O’Donnell and Letheren were that’s not really a fair comparison.

Context is everything. MA suggested, not unreasonably I accept, that Diane Abbott would be an obstacle to him voting Labour.
I argued that there were equally unfavourable and possibly more sinister obstacles preventing anyone from voting Tory so criticising Abbott’s competence was hardly a major factor in the context of a GE.

To take your comparison further...there is absolutely no point in discussing Kelle Roos in comparison with three lesser known keepers who play elsewhere. The only worthwhile comparison is with Hamer, Mitchell and possibly Carson because they are the current or longer term alternatives.

Following that logic...MA is clearly entitled to criticise Abbott on the basis of her competence but if others on the opposite side - for example Rees-Mogg and Raab - are equally lacking in competence and/or integrity then what is the point of banging on about Abbott?

I give up

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of many people, so was Hitler. Lets say Stalin killed less, does that mean that because Hitler killed more, we cannot be critical of Stalin?

[mistaram]

Swale is by far the most insulting poster on here. Yet you tell me to "grow up"
Your opinions are at best insulting everyone on the right. Dismissive and non commital on the left, whilst telling everyone your a middle ground Liberal.
.Seems to me, that means a Liberal will side with the Right if it suits, But the Left can help with your rhetoric, but you can't be seen to back them.

Swale has his moments for sure but I doubt he’s the ‘most insulting poster on here’ and he certainly isn’t a ‘commie arsehole’.

I’m perfectly happy for you to regard my comments as insulting to the ‘right’. ‘Right’ is invariably wrong in my book and the further to the ‘right’ the more wrong it becomes.
I’ll make no apology for that but I will qualify it by saying that because I oppose the ‘right’ that doesn’t mean I support the extreme left.
I most certainly don’t. It places me in the centre or somewhere marginally to the left of centre...so what...what’s wrong with that?
If politicians would grow up, abandon their egos and search for constructive coalition to the exclusion of the extremists then the world would be an infinitely better place imo.[/QUOTE]

RA you would think even Tricky with his withered right wing brain would know the difference between Communism and Socialism or perhaps I'm expecting to much

[Trickytreesreds]

Swale has his moments for sure but I doubt he’s the ‘most insulting poster on here’ and he certainly isn’t a ‘commie arsehole’.

I’m perfectly happy for you to regard my comments as insulting to the ‘right’. ‘Right’ is invariably wrong in my book and the further to the ‘right’ the more wrong it becomes.
I’ll make no apology for that but I will qualify it by saying that because I oppose the ‘right’ that doesn’t mean I support the extreme left.
I most certainly don’t. It places me in the centre or somewhere marginally to the left of centre...so what...what’s wrong with that?
If politicians would grow up, abandon their egos and search for constructive coalition to the exclusion of the extremists then the world would be an infinitely better place imo.

RA you would think even Tricky with his withered right wing brain would know the difference between Communism and Socialism or perhaps I'm expecting to much[/QUOTE]

Not really. There's a fine line between socialism and communism.
After all, Hitlers crew started out under the socialist pact.
Communism and socialism started off with the same roots, the exploitation of workers.
It appears that even our own politicians have no idea of socialism means, and who its champions are.
Take Dianne here, who thinks Mao was a man to be admired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB4o5n2EGyA

So think again when spouting the socialist crap. Exactly who has ever got rich or had a free life under socialism? Don't quote me the text book here, we all know that is never carried out. It wasn't 5 minutes ago that Corbyn was spouting Venezuela as a shining light of socialism.
On paper it looks great, but invariably it leads to economic disaster.

Funny how the EU promotes socialism as it's driving force, but lets be honest. Really?

https://71republic.com/2018/08/13/european-union-communist-roots/

[ramAnag]

I give up

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of many people, so was Hitler. Lets say Stalin killed less, does that mean that because Hitler killed more, we cannot be critical of Stalin?

Not at all, I accept that point completely but we’re talking about imminent choice at a GE.

Most agree that Abbott is an electoral disadvantage. For some - most definitely not you or MA - that may be because she’s an odd looking, overweight, opinionated black woman. For others, including many of the more reasonable on here, it will be because of doubts about her competency.

On the other hand the alternative/opposite side includes a number of equally incompetent and arguably more disreputable candidates including, in the opinion of many, Abbott’s opposite number...the objectionable Priti Patel.

I’m not saying for a moment that this somehow should alter our view of Abbott’s level of competence. I’m simply suggesting that we should stop fixating on Abbott because the alternative is no better so it gets us nowhere.

There really isn’t any serious level of disagreement between us here so let’s move on.

[mistaram]

RA you would think even Tricky with his withered right wing brain would know the difference between Communism and Socialism or perhaps I'm expecting to much

Not really. There's a fine line between socialism and communism.
After all, Hitlers crew started out under the socialist pact.
Communism and socialism started off with the same roots, the exploitation of workers.
It appears that even our own politicians have no idea of socialism means, and who its champions are.
Take Dianne here, who thinks Mao was a man to be admired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB4o5n2EGyA

So think again when spouting the socialist crap. Exactly who has ever got rich or had a free life under socialism? Don't quote me the text book here, we all know that is never carried out. It wasn't 5 minutes ago that Corbyn was spouting Venezuela as a shining light of socialism.
On paper it looks great, but invariably it leads to economic disaster.

Funny how the EU promotes socialism as it's driving force, but lets be honest. Really?


https://71republic.com/2018/08/13/eu...mmunist-roots/[/QUOTE]

So it's ok for your right wing Tories to go cap in hand to Communist China for trade is it ie Teresa May

[Trickytreesreds]

Not really. There's a fine line between socialism and communism.
After all, Hitlers crew started out under the socialist pact.
Communism and socialism started off with the same roots, the exploitation of workers.
It appears that even our own politicians have no idea of socialism means, and who its champions are.
Take Dianne here, who thinks Mao was a man to be admired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB4o5n2EGyA

So think again when spouting the socialist crap. Exactly who has ever got rich or had a free life under socialism? Don't quote me the text book here, we all know that is never carried out. It wasn't 5 minutes ago that Corbyn was spouting Venezuela as a shining light of socialism.
On paper it looks great, but invariably it leads to economic disaster.

Funny how the EU promotes socialism as it's driving force, but lets be honest. Really?


https://71republic.com/2018/08/13/eu...mmunist-roots/

So it's ok for your right wing Tories to go cap in hand to Communist China for trade is it ie Teresa May[/QUOTE]

trading and trying to replicate them are 2 different things. Though Abott admires their former leaders. I wonder why that is?
Maybe a leopard doesn't change its spots?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abbott-declared-support-for-ira-defeat-of-britain-rp79dvvmk