OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

It's old ground, but what he says is true. You don't have to be racist to stick up for your own first,

1. Immigration- unchecked and flooded areas, putting strian on housing/jobs/services. The low paid suffered the most.
2. Diversity as you call it, comes in many forms. How diverse is it, where you live? For some folks, they have had their areas turned into mini Bahgdad or Warsaw. Is that fair?
3. The establishment- well for most, they didn't like the fact that more and more decisions were being made abroad by an immovable body. At least you can vote out a plank that spends £800 on a roll of wall paper here. Though most folks know, it is only scandalous when a Tory does it. I suggest you look up who spent what, over the last 30 years.
4. The state of Britain, you need to explain more. I think the crime figures in say London, speaks volumes from your multi cultural paradise stance.

Of course the usual xenophobic/racist/little Englander gammon fury will come for having an opinion.

1. I’ve never been in favour of ‘unchecked immigration’ and the ‘strain’ you speak of.

2. I didn’t introduce diversity into the debate...Andy did...and what has Baghdad got to do with Brexit and the EU?

3. Giving amoral liars like Johnson a significant majority creates exactly the same ‘immovable body’ albeit for a possibly shorter period.
Not sure what your comment about ‘who spent what over the last thirty years’ implies or what it has to do with the situation I described.

4. I’ve never described a ‘multi cultural paradise’ or used the phrase ‘gammon fury’. I do think that most Brexiteers exhibited varying degrees of xenophobia, racism and Little Englander mentalities...that too is my opinion and I note you’ve carefully avoided the post Brexit Northern Ireland situation.

[Trickytreesreds]

1. I’ve never been in favour of ‘unchecked immigration’ and the ‘strain’ you speak of.

2. I didn’t introduce diversity into the debate...Andy did...and what has Baghdad got to do with Brexit and the EU?

3. Giving amoral liars like Johnson a significant majority creates exactly the same ‘immovable body’ albeit for a possibly shorter period.
Not sure what your comment about ‘who spent what over the last thirty years’ implies or what it has to do with the situation I described.

4. I’ve never described a ‘multi cultural paradise’ or used the phrase ‘gammon fury’. I do think that most Brexiteers exhibited varying degrees of xenophobia, racism and Little Englander mentalities...that too is my opinion and I note you’ve carefully avoided the post Brexit Northern Ireland situation.

My response isn't directed at you specifically RA.
However, since you've taken it as such.
1. The strain has been there. So please ask yourself, how diverse is where you live and would you understand having your neighbourhood turned into mini foreign country?
2. Baghdad and Warsaw were mentioned by me, as to show how diverse, successive governments have changed this country.Aided by EU migration policies.
You can go from Oldham to Norwich to experiance these swings. Plese don't tell me a flood of different cultures over a short space of time hasnt changed areas. It has and not always for the better.( this applies to lot of Europe in different ways).
3. Amoral liars? Aren't they all? Blair/Brown/Cameron/May/Johnson.
You keep mentioning Johnson, but never one of the others. Who was/is the worst?
4. Northern Ireland? Never dodged it never will. It is one of those difficult ones that's impossible to solve. The majority want the Union, but that means the minority want trouble. The UK bent a lot for peace of sorts, but the problem was/is never solved. Now don't try to claim the EU sorted it. It didn't. It has mearly opened up the cracks again.
It is also unforgivable how the EU had deliberately tried to exploit it, as I highlighted in a previous post. Barnier caught red handed telling them to focus on causing trouble in Ireland.
Peace my arse, they care only about their Union of lies.

[swaledale]

As usual, all I ask for is a link to that research. I know that winds you up but it has to be said, because I honestly think you make it up in a fit of wokeblindness

Nope it doesn't wind me up, it just proves to me how dumb you are, these things are esily found if one bothers and to be frank, when I see ignorant people posting that its just my "woke" opinion, I just collapse with laughter at how really ****ing ignorant people are!

For a start anybody who uses the word "woke" as an insult or a term of abuse is not worthy of consideration, I understand how frustrating it must seem to be out of touch, to be some cranky old git wishing for the 1950's to return but hey thats your and the other tw@ts problem not mine.

As for providing a link, go ****ing find out for yourself if you want to dismiss what i say fine, but its you who choose to remain ignorant and in your own little bubble.

What i really find funny is that most on here are completely taken in by the *******s - Thicky parrots stuff gleaned from right wing fake news internet sites and is so dumb he posts links to them, anyone with half a brain cell would read the stuff on there and understand its the ramblings of a deranged mind, but Thicky is unaware of this and makes
himself such a **** by his claims.

Anyway gents, love to stay and chat but hey you can't argue with the dumb.

[Trickytreesreds]

Nope it doesn't wind me up, it just proves to me how dumb you are, these things are esily found if one bothers and to be frank, when I see ignorant people posting that its just my "woke" opinion, I just collapse with laughter at how really ****ing ignorant people are!

For a start anybody who uses the word "woke" as an insult or a term of abuse is not worthy of consideration, I understand how frustrating it must seem to be out of touch, to be some cranky old git wishing for the 1950's to return but hey thats your and the other tw@ts problem not mine.

As for providing a link, go ****ing find out for yourself if you want to dismiss what i say fine, but its you who choose to remain ignorant and in your own little bubble.

What i really find funny is that most on here are completely taken in by the *******s - Thicky parrots stuff gleaned from right wing fake news internet sites and is so dumb he posts links to them, anyone with half a brain cell would read the stuff on there and understand its the ramblings of a deranged mind, but Thicky is unaware of this and makes
himself such a **** by his claims.

Anyway gents, love to stay and chat but hey you can't argue with the dumb.

So predictable
Do you require forceps, to get that size 6 out of your top lip?

[ramAnag]

My response isn't directed at you specifically RA.
However, since you've taken it as such.
1. The strain has been there. So please ask yourself, how diverse is where you live and would you understand having your neighbourhood turned into mini foreign country?
2. Baghdad and Warsaw were mentioned by me, as to show how diverse, successive governments have changed this country.Aided by EU migration policies.
You can go from Oldham to Norwich to experiance these swings. Plese don't tell me a flood of different cultures over a short space of time hasnt changed areas. It has and not always for the better.( this applies to lot of Europe in different ways).
3. Amoral liars? Aren't they all? Blair/Brown/Cameron/May/Johnson.
You keep mentioning Johnson, but never one of the others. Who was/is the worst?
4. Northern Ireland? Never dodged it never will. It is one of those difficult ones that's impossible to solve. The majority want the Union, but that means the minority want trouble. The UK bent a lot for peace of sorts, but the problem was/is never solved. Now don't try to claim the EU sorted it. It didn't. It has mearly opened up the cracks again.
It is also unforgivable how the EU had deliberately tried to exploit it, as I highlighted in a previous post. Barnier caught red handed telling them to focus on causing trouble in Ireland.
Peace my arse, they care only about their Union of lies.

Tbf...your post was a response to my quote.

1. I’m not sure what where I live has to do with it, but I accept that the most ‘multi cultural’ areas include some of the poorest and I have always understood some of the pressures this brings. I don’t happen to live in a ‘poor’ area although my own ancestry, if I go back far enough, probably involves some Viking, Germanic and Welsh roots and my nearest neighbours have Irish ancestry. So what? Go back far enough and you’ll find we’re all the product of a ‘melting pot’ somewhere along the line.

2. Still don’t know what Baghdad has to do with ‘EU migration policies’. I know next to nothing about East Anglia but most of the racial tensions in places like Oldham and Burnley have historically been between the poor white population and the Muslim population. What has that got to do with the EU?

3. Politicians lie...shock horror! Of course you’re right...but four of the five you mention are ‘yesterday’s men (and woman). Only Johnson matters now because he is the one in power. He is also, imo, the worst and most blatantly hypocritical of the lot.

4. I’ve never claimed that the EU sorted NI. Blair sorted NI, but that’s not the point. The point is that those opposed to Brexit warned about what might happen in NI as a result of the Brexit outcome. Johnson and the Brexiteers repeatedly told us there’d be nothing to worry about. The current situation would suggest otherwise.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m sure you’re right.

So basically you’re agreeing that there was a racist aspect and you must recognise that voting against membership of the EU for reasons that were not ‘really to do with with our relationship with the EU’ was ridiculous.

What is this Britishness or Englishness that you speak of and why is it threatened by ‘diversity’? Like the USA we are a nation of immigrants and have been for time in memoriam.

‘Coercive control by the establishment...in a manner far more extreme than the old days of doffing one’s cap to the gentry’...I can accept the ‘unelected bureaucracy’ objections to the EU...but look at us now...a PM who spends £800 plus on a roll of wallpaper for his flat while his Government opposes efforts to protect those who live in properties encased in flammable cladding and with inadequate fire doors. Seems worse than any doffing of caps to me and a particularly telling juxtaposition as regards the state of Britain and possibly ‘Britishness’ today.

P.S. I’ll pass on the invitation to Great Yarmouth thanks...and I don’t wear badges.

That feels like a bit of a sarcastic first sentence from you rA but I'm going to assume I've been reading too much Swale and have misread it!

I'm not agreeing there was a racist aspect at all in the Brexit vote (beyond the usual hundredth of a percent bonehead element), and therein lies a bit of a problem with the world we currently live in - expressing a well reasoned opposition to the amount, approach to or impact of immigration is NOT racist, especially when coupled with an ethos of treating individuals on their merits, immigrant or not. Shouting 'racist' at every opportunity only inflames the situation

Nor do I agree that voting one way or another to make a point about something other than the question asked is ridiculous. It was possibly ridiculous to offer the populace the opportunity to do that, but that's another issue. Folk wanted to make a point and, being ignored elsewhere, chose the referendum to make their point. I'm not an openly protesting sort of person but I respect peoples' right to protest and this was such a protest

Sorry but I can't reply on the coercive control paragraph, you've let your dislike of the current administration get the better of you and gone off the subject. I will elaborate though, that the feeling of the 'silent majority' is that they have been progressively marginalised by the public sector, the media and more recently the corporate world in favour of whatever minority happens to be the current flavour of the month. I can't comment much on the former and the latter but I'm all over the media one and 'I can see their point'. You have said yourself you don't approve of quotas, so if you extrapolate that across a population who see quotas in a wider sense than you, AND probably have more direct experience of same day to day than you, there's a point you may also see.

[ramAnag]

That feels like a bit of a sarcastic first sentence from you rA but I'm going to assume I've been reading too much Swale and have misread it!

I'm not agreeing there was a racist aspect at all (beyond the usual hundredth of a percent bonehead element), and therein lies a bit of a problem with the world we currently live in - expressing a well reasoned opposition to the amount, approach to or impact of immigration is NOT racist, especially when coupled with an ethos of treating individuals on their merits, immigrant or not. Shouting 'racist' at every opportunity only inflames the situation

Nor do I agree that voting one way or another to make a point about something other than the question asked is ridiculous. It was possibly ridiculous to offer the populace the opportunity to do that, but that's another issue. Folk wanted to make a point and, being ignored elsewhere, chose the referendum to make their point

Sorry but I can't reply on the coercive control paragraph, you've let your dislike of the current administration get the better of you and gone off the subject

No sarcasm intended at all, AF.

I’m not suggesting that your reasoned opposition to the impact/level of immigration is racist...neither do I think of ‘reasoned opposition’ as being synonymous with the more ‘committed’ Brexiteers...and I’m not one to ever ‘shout racist’ at every opportunity.

How can voting for Brexit because you object to something unrelated to membership of the EU be anything other than ridiculous?

You mentioned ‘coercive control’ via the EU. My point is that circumstances - people being so hacked off with the Brexit argument that they just voted for it to end - has led to another form of control. You mentioned the ‘doffing of caps’ to the gentry...I’ve just attempted to show how the current PM’s hypocrisy transcends any amount of ‘cap doffing’.

Honestly don’t understand your edited addition. How on earth have the ‘public sector, the media and the corporate world marginalised the silent majority’?

[swaledale]

That feels like a bit of a sarcastic first sentence from you rA but I'm going to assume I've been reading too much Swale and have misread it!

I'm not agreeing there was a racist aspect at all in the Brexit vote (beyond the usual hundredth of a percent bonehead element), and therein lies a bit of a problem with the world we currently live in - expressing a well reasoned opposition to the amount, approach to or impact of immigration is NOT racist, especially when coupled with an ethos of treating individuals on their merits, immigrant or not. Shouting 'racist' at every opportunity only inflames the situation

Nor do I agree that voting one way or another to make a point about something other than the question asked is ridiculous. It was possibly ridiculous to offer the populace the opportunity to do that, but that's another issue. Folk wanted to make a point and, being ignored elsewhere, chose the referendum to make their point. I'm not an openly protesting sort of person but I respect peoples' right to protest and this was such a protest

Sorry but I can't reply on the coercive control paragraph, you've let your dislike of the current administration get the better of you and gone off the subject. I will elaborate though, that the feeling of the 'silent majority' is that they have been progressively marginalised by the public sector, the media and more recently the corporate world in favour of whatever minority happens to be the current flavour of the month. I can't comment much on the former and the latter but I'm all over the media one and 'I can see their point'. You have said yourself you don't approve of quotas, so if you extrapolate that across a population who see quotas in a wider sense than you, AND probably have more direct experience of same day to day than you, there's a point you may also see.

Whatever minority happens to be flavour of the month, mm there in lies your prejudice and bigotry, along I agree with a substantial part of the population, narrow minded, inward looking bigots, who fail to appreciate that actually the 1950's wasn't a golden age and that we are actually a better society for having recognised that women, gay people, the disabled and those of a different race amongst others are to a large extent no longer discriminated against.

In any case it was substantial number of over 60 well off ****s that voted for Brexit equal to if not greater numbers than the so called left behind.

How the **** you come to the conclusion that the public sector, the media and the corporate world have marginalised a silent majority? You've been reading too much of the plaintive cries of the ill informed ill educated under class with whom Thicky dwells.

[Trickytreesreds]

Whatever minority happens to be flavour of the month, mm there in lies your prejudice and bigotry, along I agree with a substantial part of the population, narrow minded, inward looking bigots, who fail to appreciate that actually the 1950's wasn't a golden age and that we are actually a better society for having recognised that women, gay people, the disabled and those of a different race amongst others are to a large extent no longer discriminated against.

In any case it was substantial number of over 60 well off ****s that voted for Brexit equal to if not greater numbers than the so called left behind.

How the **** you come to the conclusion that the public sector, the media and the corporate world have marginalised a silent majority? You've been reading too much of the plaintive cries of the ill informed ill educated under class with whom Thicky dwells.

I'm intrigued now. Do you talk to people in real life, the way you respond to them in here?
In my part of the world, someone would rip your face off, for talking to them like dog ****.
Your patronising arrogance, is quite frankly off the scale and you sound like a modern day Antoinette. "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"
In effect you're type infest the EU and are the very epitomy of the rejection.
Sore loser and spiteful vermin.

[Andy_Faber]

In any case it was substantial number of over 60 well off ****s that voted for Brexit equal to if not greater numbers than the so called left behind.

As usual, a made up piece of narrative to fit with your 'argument'

Regarding over 60's, 65% of the 18% who make up the over 60s (actually over 65's but remember I havent stripped out by wealth so I'm strengthening your argument by maybe 20%) voted Leave, so thats 8.5m of a 50m vote. 50% of the 25m earning £0 - £15000 per annum voted Leave, thats 12.5m

You really do ask for it sometimes Swale

[swaledale]

I'm intrigued now. Do you talk to people in real life, the way you respond to them in here?
In my part of the world, someone would rip your face off, for talking to them like dog ****.
Your patronising arrogance, is quite frankly off the scale and you sound like a modern day Antoinette. "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"
In effect you're type infest the EU and are the very epitomy of the rejection.
Sore loser and spiteful vermin.

So your a typical right wing ignorant thug then? Not that anyone could be of any doubt given the utter rubbish you post. Difficult not be patronising when one is dealing with you and other ignorant arseholes on here, thick as ****e and utterly unable to understand the real world, and what is a bigger laugh is your the one being screwed!! Oh my I do laugh that you actually think in that tiny mind you ahve any credibility, then when other thickos what you say, one can only shake ones head and wonder how stupid some folks are!

Toddle pip old man, in any case I doubt you rip open a paper bag! You'd have to google it first! ****er!

[swaledale]

As usual, a made up piece of narrative to fit with your 'argument'

Regarding over 60's, 65% of the 18% who make up the over 60s (actually over 65's but remember I havent stripped out by wealth so I'm strengthening your argument by maybe 20%) voted Leave, so thats 8.5m of a 50m vote. 50% of the 25m earning £0 - £15000 per annum voted Leave, thats 12.5m

You really do ask for it sometimes Swale

Blimey you really are rather dim - Uk voters 46.5 million, turnout 72.2% so you know get your basic figures right.

The Leave campaign’s success was underpinned by a broad-based coalition of voters which is much more wide-ranging than the ‘left behind’. This included three main groups; affluent Eurosceptics, the older working class and a smaller group of economically disadvantaged, anti-Immigration voters.

Age is the other great fault line. Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave.

[Andy_Faber]

Blimey you really are rather dim - Uk voters 46.5 million, turnout 72.2% so you know get your figures right.

The Leave campaign’s success was underpinned by a broad-based coalition of voters which is much more wide-ranging than the ‘left behind’. This included three main groups; affluent Eurosceptics, the older working class and a smaller group of economically disadvantaged, anti-Immigration voters.

I was rounding up. Even you must know that whatever the starting figure, the result still disproves your 'fit the narrative' invention. But here you go, to make it clear with your start number. 46.5m x 72% x 18% x 65% = 3.9m over 65s. 46.5m x 72% x 34% x 50% = 5.7m left behind. Same result, more left behind voted than the 'old white middle class bigots' you are so clearly referring to, because you so often do

[Trickytreesreds]

So your a typical right wing ignorant thug then? Not that anyone could be of any doubt given the utter rubbish you post. Difficult not be patronising when one is dealing with you and other ignorant arseholes on here, thick as ****e and utterly unable to understand the real world, and what is a bigger laugh is your the one being screwed!! Oh my I do laugh that you actually think in that tiny mind you ahve any credibility, then when other thickos what you say, one can only shake ones head and wonder how stupid some folks are!

Toddle pip old man, in any case I doubt you rip open a paper bag! You'd have to google it first! ****er!

1. I didn't say me, I said this area. You should try it and see how long you last
2. To be a thug, you have to be right wing? MMMMMMMMMMMM, I don't think you've thought about that one hard enough
3. So everyone on here not agreeing with you, is an ignorant arsehole then? 99% just been labelled.
4. Why do you come on here? Everyone is your enemy and you sound like a dictator flapping in front of a microphone.
5. You are in effect just a sad little, middle class drone. Who thinks the peasants in this world shouldn't be allowed to breathe never mind have an opinion.


You was born in the wrong century Fail. You'd have made a wonderful Victorian sweat shop owner, organising round whippings to keep up production and suppress free speech.
Clown.

[swaledale]

I was rounding up. Even you must know that whatever the starting figure, the result still disproves your 'fit the narrative' invention. But here you go, to make it clear with your start number. 46.5m x 72% x 18% x 65% = 3.9m over 65s. 46.5m x 72% x 34% x 50% = 5.7m left behind. Same result, more left behind voted than the 'old white middle class bigots' you are so clearly referring to, because you so often do

I suggest you actually do a bit of research as its not me thats saying it but the research and analysis of the voting results, which show clearly that the "so called "left behind" were not the major force behind the Leave vote, older more comfortably off people were as much if not more than that vote - in fact the older one was the higher percentage voted for Brexit.

You on the other hand have made up numbers based on an arbitary income level - again the research shows that a large number of leave votes came from people who earned average or above average wages, not "left behind" in any sense of the word, possibly feeling squeezed.

But as you so often do, dismiss anything that doesn't accord with your narrow view of life.

And as a point of correction, I made no mention of old white middle class bigots! Thats a label you assumed I had put on them.