OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

RA , I am a bit puzzled as well, with what puzzles you.
1. Lorries, well we've covered that. You brought up examples blaming Brexit, I'm like a lot of folks rebuffing that. There's a lot of people using that as an excuse, as it suits an agenda. SO...

2. NI............. The UK fundamentally, wants to change naff all in Ireland. The only ones pushing a disruption agenda and agitating the peace agreement, is the EU. It is perfectly solvable, but the EU has its own reasons like control/being under mined/pandoras box/ even revenge to make it awkward.

3. Relationships with our neighbours? We have been in Europe since 6000BC. We haven't left even now,
Why or how, should being an EU club member effect that?
The issue at hand here, as the morphing from an economic alliance, to an ever expanding political one
There is absolutely nothing to stop any nation co operating with another on crime/terror etc. The bollox of it is, because the EU is pissed off.
Forget the policing, it was the armed services they really wanted co operation on, even though we was already in one through NATO.

All I see is agumentative agreement, for a system of unelected bureaucrats, that is taking a great delight in causing as much disruption as possible.
Put it back to an Economic alliance again and I'll relent.
Personally, the bullying attempts just harden my resolve and I'd sooner burn in hell, than give in to it.

Bullying? FFS! You really do swallow a lot of utter tosh and as for unelected bureaucrats, thats marvellous that we have our own in charge now!!

1. You've covered that with anecdotal stories and yes the problem isn't just Brexit related, though as always you seem to think there is a mythical pool of labour out there that once retrained will be doing al these jobs that EU immigrants were doing, clearly demographics isn't your strong point but ho hum, there are facts and the bull**** you believe and regurgitate.

2. You have again swallowed the anti EU propaganda that comes out of the lying mouths of this government. The NI situation is not of the EU's making, other than quite properly it wanted to avoid the leakage of goods across the NI/ROI border and importantly the imposition of a hard border in Ireland.

I could highlight a dozen things the EU proposed to the Uk government to allow goods to flow from the mainland to NI, a functioning IT system being just one of them and an agreement on equivalence on food and chemical standards being another, these were rejected by the UK government, because it does not want to be "fettered" by EU standards, despite the fact that Brexiteers promised that UK standards would be as good if not better than EU standards so whats the issue agreeing to a minimum equivalence?

But the real issue with the NI Protocol is simple - Johnson signed an international treaty making commitments under international law, without actually meaning to comply with them. They have adopted a tactic of agreeing stuff, signing agreements and then hoping to wear the EU down by threatening to tear them up - all the while blaming the EU for intransigence, when in reality the EU has tried to cooperate.

Of course this blame the EU tactic has long been a Tory politician weapon when we were in the EU - there are literally hundreds of examples where a Tory government has blamed the EU for something affecting the UK, when actually the UK government chose either not to do or chose to do something on its own accord. This despite the fact we had a veto stopped many things being adopted in the first place.

Of course those who are a little dim, chose to believe it was all the EU's fault you really ought to fact check those websites you read, as I've said before the more you try to advance an argument the easier it is to blow holes in it and you end up looking like a fool who knows very little!

3. How do you not understand the benefits of the single market and customs union? Irrespective of whether the Uk or a part its population misunderstood the word sovereignty, we could and IMO given the vote should have left the EU, but remained in the SM and CU - clearly Norway feels its of benefit, but no our government of fools decided upon the hardest of hard Brexit's and the Uk is already losing more millions per week in lost trade and increased costs than the mythical figure that was on the side of the bus.

By the way it was the UK Government who withdrew from the system which shares data on crime across the EU, the Uk government that hasn't negotiated equivalence in the financial sector leading to Amsterdam now overtaking London as Europe's financial centre.

The whole point which you have missed in swallowing the propaganda is that yes the UK could have a more cooperative relationship with the EU, but has chosen not to at the moment, indeed it has acted with bad faith and frankly childishly in its negotiations, damaging respect and reputation and the economy in the process.

Oh and whats really ironic, the rest of europe has largely caught up with the vaccine programme, yet the Uk is still one of the worst for infections!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Bullying? FFS! You really do swallow a lot of utter tosh and as for unelected bureaucrats, thats marvellous that we have our own in charge now!!

1. You've covered that with anecdotal stories and yes the problem isn't just Brexit related, though as always you seem to think there is a mythical pool of labour out there that once retrained will be doing al these jobs that EU immigrants were doing, clearly demographics isn't your strong point but ho hum, there are facts and the bull**** you believe and regurgitate.

2. You have again swallowed the anti EU propaganda that comes out of the lying mouths of this government. The NI situation is not of the EU's making, other than quite properly it wanted to avoid the leakage of goods across the NI/ROI border and importantly the imposition of a hard border in Ireland.

I could highlight a dozen things the EU proposed to the Uk government to allow goods to flow from the mainland to NI, a functioning IT system being just one of them and an agreement on equivalence on food and chemical standards being another, these were rejected by the UK government, because it does not want to be "fettered" by EU standards, despite the fact that Brexiteers promised that UK standards would be as good if not better than EU standards so whats the issue agreeing to a minimum equivalence?

But the real issue with the NI Protocol is simple - Johnson signed an international treaty making commitments under international law, without actually meaning to comply with them. They have adopted a tactic of agreeing stuff, signing agreements and then hoping to wear the EU down by threatening to tear them up - all the while blaming the EU for intransigence, when in reality the EU has tried to cooperate.

Of course this blame the EU tactic has long been a Tory politician weapon when we were in the EU - there are literally hundreds of examples where a Tory government has blamed the EU for something affecting the UK, when actually the UK government chose either not to do or chose to do something on its own accord. This despite the fact we had a veto stopped many things being adopted in the first place.

Of course those who are a little dim, chose to believe it was all the EU's fault you really ought to fact check those websites you read, as I've said before the more you try to advance an argument the easier it is to blow holes in it and you end up looking like a fool who knows very little!

3. How do you not understand the benefits of the single market and customs union? Irrespective of whether the Uk or a part its population misunderstood the word sovereignty, we could and IMO given the vote should have left the EU, but remained in the SM and CU - clearly Norway feels its of benefit, but no our government of fools decided upon the hardest of hard Brexit's and the Uk is already losing more millions per week in lost trade and increased costs than the mythical figure that was on the side of the bus.

By the way it was the UK Government who withdrew from the system which shares data on crime across the EU, the Uk government that hasn't negotiated equivalence in the financial sector leading to Amsterdam now overtaking London as Europe's financial centre.

The whole point which you have missed in swallowing the propaganda is that yes the UK could have a more cooperative relationship with the EU, but has chosen not to at the moment, indeed it has acted with bad faith and frankly childishly in its negotiations, damaging respect and reputation and the economy in the process.

Oh and whats really ironic, the rest of europe has largely caught up with the vaccine programme, yet the Uk is still one of the worst for infections!!

I don't need to say anymore. You accuse the UK, but have to negotiate with these scumbags|? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0eqqxJE7aA

Perhaps you missed Juncker admitting, that sometimes you have to lie.
It's sulking pure and simple.
How dare we break up with the Empire.

[ramAnag]

Oh God...Capt. YouTube is back with a vengeance.

All you seem to be saying...again and again and again...is ‘I’m fine with the economic union...but not a political one’.
Okay...I have a degree of sympathy with that point...but why jeopardise our economic future, which is what Brexit does, because you want to change the politics. Stay in and fight your corner. Change from within and avoid completely splitting our own nation let alone Europe.

‘Lorries, well we’ve covered that.’ No...we haven’t. All we’ve concluded is that Brexit is only partially, and not entirely, responsible for the shortage of HGV drivers. It’s a major factor in the problem and as such a major factor in the shortages we have faced and are likely to face in the near future.

Northern Ireland...all the EU’s fault? Absolute bollux. Promises were made by our negotiators and broken by our government.
Q. Regardless of who you think is to blame...would the NI troubles have resurfaced in the way they have without Brexit?
A. No they damned well wouldn’t.

Finally, try making your own arguments instead of resorting to YouTube and the frankly ridiculous GBNews and FoxHole crap.

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh God...Capt. YouTube is back with a vengeance.

All you seem to be saying...again and again and again...is ‘I’m fine with the economic union...but not a political one’.
Okay...I have a degree of sympathy with that point...but why jeopardise our economic future, which is what Brexit does, because you want to change the politics. Stay in and fight your corner. Change from within and avoid completely splitting our own nation let alone Europe.

‘Lorries, well we’ve covered that.’ No...we haven’t. All we’ve concluded is that Brexit is only partially, and not entirely, responsible for the shortage of HGV drivers. It’s a major factor in the problem and as such a major factor in the shortages we have faced and are likely to face in the near future.

Northern Ireland...all the EU’s fault? Absolute bollux. Promises were made by our negotiators and broken by our government.
Q. Regardless of who you think is to blame...would the NI troubles have resurfaced in the way they have without Brexit?
A. No they damned well wouldn’t.

Finally, try making your own arguments instead of resorting to YouTube and the frankly ridiculous GBNews and FoxHole crap.

Jesus wept, you body swerved that like John Barnes in flight
So I show you a clip of Barnier, using Ireland as a weapon to cause trouble and you ignore it? In fact your reply degenerated into an insult as a reply
ok YOU WIN. You don't want evidence when it involves an incovenient truth.

In fact you don't seem troubled at all, that we entered into this union, with a vote on economic alliance. Then it was morphed into a political take over, that grows by the day.
We was "inside" for over 40 years. Name me one, yes one proposal that was accepted. In fact, don't bother, I'll you. The answer is none.
Cameron came out with all this bollox as well and off he trotted.
He came back with an half eaten sandwich, that we had to give back after 3 years and a very sore backside.
NI, sunshine is British territory.
Either we cut it loose or we don't. If the NI want to stay then so be it.

aS FOR THE LAST LINE- NO!

You see you will quote the BBC/Guardian at will. They are pro EU.
I gave you a secret recording of Barnier and you dismiss it. That puts you on par with Chamberlain over the Sudetenland.

[MadAmster]

Just to muddy the waters......... Over here, wecirrently have more job vacancies than we do unemployed people. Even if those currently unemployed were all retrainable, and most aren't, at least not to the standards the open jobs require, we'd still have loads of open vacancies.....

[Andy_Faber]

Just to muddy the waters......... Over here, wecirrently have more job vacancies than we do unemployed people. Even if those currently unemployed were all retrainable, and most aren't, at least not to the standards the open jobs require, we'd still have loads of open vacancies.....

Did you accidentally leave EU without anyone noticing?

[ramAnag]

Jesus wept, you body swerved that like John Barnes in flight
So I show you a clip of Barnier, using Ireland as a weapon to cause trouble and you ignore it? In fact your reply degenerated into an insult as a reply
ok YOU WIN. You don't want evidence when it involves an incovenient truth.

In fact you don't seem troubled at all, that we entered into this union, with a vote on economic alliance. Then it was morphed into a political take over, that grows by the day.
We was "inside" for over 40 years. Name me one, yes one proposal that was accepted. In fact, don't bother, I'll you. The answer is none.
Cameron came out with all this bollox as well and off he trotted.
He came back with an half eaten sandwich, that we had to give back after 3 years and a very sore backside.
NI, sunshine is British territory.
Either we cut it loose or we don't. If the NI want to stay then so be it.

aS FOR THE LAST LINE- NO!

You see you will quote the BBC/Guardian at will. They are pro EU.
I gave you a secret recording of Barnier and you dismiss it. That puts you on par with Chamberlain over the Sudetenland.

Tricky, I seldom bother to look at your add ons. If I wanted to watch your YouTube selections and GBNews or read your FoxHole, Mail, Express and Telegraph rubbish I’d sort it for myself. I haven’t even looked at your ‘secret recording of Barnier’ because I know exactly what the agenda is likely to be.
The last thing you posted that I looked at that wasn’t your own thoughts was the Farage-Biggins thing. You’re full of admiration for Biggins because he echoes your own view. To me he’s a complete prat. He came out as being gay some years ago but now seems to oppose gay marriage, he supports Brexit while acknowledging that some of his friends have had there businesses ruined...but then not quite trusting what they say...and he seems to think that Brexit will but the ‘great’ back in Great Britain without ever realising that it is a geographical term, not a term of respect or endearment. I mean, if you want an example of a confused minor celebrity talking absolute sh**e to a wannabe who’s made a very good living out of creating chaos and division then look no further.

‘On a par with Chanberlain over Sudetenland’? Jesus wept...thanks for the compliment but I’m a bloke on a football forum...nothing more, nothing less and when was the last time I ‘quoted’ from the Guardian? I don’t...that’s the point. The BBC, The i and the Guardian are my most trusted sources...that’s fair, but I seldom quote from anyone. I’m interested in people’s opinions, including yours, and sharing or sometimes trying to change views, but I have absolutely no interest in reading the views of the right/ultra right wing press that you repeatedly try to introduce on here.

[MadAmster]

...and he seems to think that Brexit will but the ‘great’ back in Great Britain without ever realising that it is a geographical term, not a term of respect or endearment.

A term, and how ironic is this, given to us by a bunch of French immigrants

[Geoff Parkstone]

and there was me thinking it was down to James VI / I referencing the (then) separate kingdoms of Scotland and England, both of which he reigned over after the union of the crowns in 1603?

[MadAmster]

For whatever reason the English word divided into ‘Britain’ and ‘Brittany’ in the late Middle Ages. Etymonline seems to think they are both from Old French:

Britain (n.) c. 1300, Breteyne, from Old French Bretaigne, from Latin Britannia

Brittany (n.) French Bretagne, named for 5c. Romano-Celtic refugees from the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain who crossed the channel and settled there

Whereas Wiktionary seems to think there was a preceding Anglo-Saxon word that later French forms merely influenced:

Britain Old English Breoton, Bryten etc., from Latin Britannia; later reinforced by Anglo-Norman Britaine, Old French Bretaigne

Brittany From Latin Brittania, presumably from Celtic.

[Andy_Faber]

You weren’t one of the two ‘usual suspects’.

I’m puzzled by the fact that you don’t think I’m ‘impacted’ upon by the shortages presented by the lack of lorry drivers, fruit and veg pickers and hospitality workers.
I’m further puzzled by the fact that you don’t think I’ll be impacted upon by the likely rise in NI based terrorism. I know that, unlike the above, it hasn’t happened yet but it does seem more likely than it has done since the late ‘90’s...because of the Brexit deal...and I’m puzzled by the fact that you don’t think the deterioration in our relationship with our neighbours and the subsequent decline in protection against organised crime and terrorism is something to be ignored.

Still...I’ve done my best...the cricket is on and interesting so, have a safe flight and at least you’re coming back to a couple of days of good European weather.

Trying avoid the current rancour on here, but I STILL don’t see any ACTUAL impacts that you have experienced rather than heard about. I’m not going to scattergun anecdotes but in hospitality I’ve witnessed good and bad, and to be honest some of the ‘bad’ could be overcome by individuals pulling their fingers out

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky, I seldom bother to look at your add ons. If I wanted to watch your YouTube selections and GBNews or read your FoxHole, Mail, Express and Telegraph rubbish I’d sort it for myself. I haven’t even looked at your ‘secret recording of Barnier’ because I know exactly what the agenda is likely to be.
The last thing you posted that I looked at that wasn’t your own thoughts was the Farage-Biggins thing. You’re full of admiration for Biggins because he echoes your own view. To me he’s a complete prat. He came out as being gay some years ago but now seems to oppose gay marriage, he supports Brexit while acknowledging that some of his friends have had there businesses ruined...but then not quite trusting what they say...and he seems to think that Brexit will but the ‘great’ back in Great Britain without ever realising that it is a geographical term, not a term of respect or endearment. I mean, if you want an example of a confused minor celebrity talking absolute sh**e to a wannabe who’s made a very good living out of creating chaos and division then look no further.

‘On a par with Chanberlain over Sudetenland’? Jesus wept...thanks for the compliment but I’m a bloke on a football forum...nothing more, nothing less and when was the last time I ‘quoted’ from the Guardian? I don’t...that’s the point. The BBC, The i and the Guardian are my most trusted sources...that’s fair, but I seldom quote from anyone. I’m interested in people’s opinions, including yours, and sharing or sometimes trying to change views, but I have absolutely no interest in reading the views of the right/ultra right wing press that you repeatedly try to introduce on here.

Absolute Tosh. There is no agenda, no right wing ultra.
It was a secret recording nailing Barniers arse to the wall. IT has no comments/ commentry/anything. Barniers words say it all. No bias no slant. CAUGHT RED HANDED.
Listen to it and tell me it doesn't concern you.

[ramAnag]

Absolute Tosh. There is no agenda, no right wing ultra.

Of course there’s an ‘agenda’. All your posts display a right wing agenda and all your sources have a right wing slant.
I didn’t mention ‘right wing ultra’, whatever that is. I was just pointing out that your sources range from the right of centre Mail and Telegraph to the more ultra right extremes of GBNews and FoxHole and that I try to avoid reading/watching such garbage.

[ramAnag]

Trying avoid the current rancour on here, but I STILL don’t see any ACTUAL impacts that you have experienced rather than heard about. I’m not going to scattergun anecdotes but in hospitality I’ve witnessed good and bad, and to be honest some of the ‘bad’ could be overcome by individuals pulling their fingers out

What can I say? I’ve referred to specific shortages which I’ve witnessed...from HGV drivers to soft fruit. None of them are life changing but they are all things that we can do without and wouldn’t have been so severe without Brexit. If you don’t acknowledge those points as impacting on me there’s really nothing I can do about it.
Covid has been a mixed blessing for the post Brexit government. It has obviously created some massive financial pressures but I suspect it has also concealed a great deal.
Let’s see what happens when (and if) travel and hospitality get fully up and running again and how our supplies of winter veg work out.
I genuinely hope there won’t be a problem, but I suspect that there will be.

[Andy_Faber]

What can I say? I’ve referred to specific shortages which I’ve witnessed...from HGV drivers to soft fruit. None of them are life changing but they are all things that we can do without and wouldn’t have been so severe without Brexit. If you don’t acknowledge those points as impacting on me there’s really nothing I can do about it.
Covid has been a mixed blessing for the post Brexit government. It has obviously created some massive financial pressures but I suspect it has also concealed a great deal.
Let’s see what happens when (and if) travel and hospitality get fully up and running again and how our supplies of winter veg work out.
I genuinely hope there won’t be a problem, but I suspect that there will be.

I'm not sure if you missed my point deliberately or not but unless those who think as you do can provide clearer evidence to the population any idea of returning to EU is dead in the water.

One thing I asked a few pages ago and no-one picked upon was whether our respective opinions (on this forum) are coloured by the fact that we are relatively sheilded from the impact of Brexit - Lord Swale of The Dale has made the point about 'the idiots who voted for it will be most impacted by it' and I guess by that he equates idiots with the less well-heeled (I'll tell my life-saving nursing friends that one), maybe he has a point and we are collectively too far from the pain to know how good/bad things are