OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I thought you’d like that!

It’s beyond political though, although I’m at a loss to put a name to it

Okay, putting a name to it, you’re the Statler and Waldorf of the forum...a couple of blokes in their sixties who see eye to eye about very little but...‘hope for the demise of white western culture’. Hmmm...I think not.

[Trickytreesreds]

Okay, putting a name to it, you’re the Statler and Waldorf of the forum...a couple of blokes in their sixties who see eye to eye about very little but...‘hope for the demise of white western culture’. Hmmm...I think not.

Depends how you look at it, Take his favourite buzz word "gammon"

Gammon is pig. And who eats pig? Not Jews and not Muslims. Christians eat pork, white and black. But gammon refers to whites only – to white Christians, then. So now white Christians have their own personal term of abuse, courtesy of the new left. Thank you. For what exactly? For making political discourse cheaper and more disgusting every day? For alienating potential allies in the battle against austerity? For making racial and religious slurs a little more acceptable, while all the time claiming to loathe them, which is, if you have no self-awareness allow me to make you aware of it, hypocrisy? For making floating voters think that socialists are screaming, useless kids who will tear down a world and forget to build another one for name-calling on Twitter? For behaving just as you say your enemies do?

[ramAnag]

Depends how you look at it, Take his favourite buzz word "gammon"

Gammon is pig. And who eats pig? Not Jews and not Muslims. Christians eat pork, white and black. But gammon refers to whites only – to white Christians, then. So now white Christians have their own personal term of abuse, courtesy of the new left. Thank you. For what exactly? For making political discourse cheaper and more disgusting every day? For alienating potential allies in the battle against austerity? For making racial and religious slurs a little more acceptable, while all the time claiming to loathe them, which is, if you have no self-awareness allow me to make you aware of it, hypocrisy? For making floating voters think that socialists are screaming, useless kids who will tear down a world and forget to build another one for name-calling on Twitter? For behaving just as you say your enemies do?

Oh ffs...grow up. He uses the term ‘gammon’ to wind people like you up...and to be honest, and I may be wrong because I’m really not into name calling, I’d always thought of it as a reference to the sort of blotchy pink complexion synonymous with middle aged, middle class English gentlemen of a certain indignant outlook.
As for you jumping on your high horse about things becoming ‘cheaper and more disgusting everyday’...aren’t you the same bloke who was incensed about a certain foul mouthed comedian not being allowed to perform the other day? So don’t try and lecture me about hypocrisy.

[Andy_Faber]

Oh ffs...grow up. He uses the term ‘gammon’ to wind people like you up....

…and that sums the problem up, you laugh off, and excuse Swale’s use of ‘gammon’ yet would be appalled at the use of ‘coon’ or ‘pikey’’

Hate speech is defined as ‘abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group’, The people in question are a group, and are being prejudiced against based on an assumed physical characteristic,no different to, let’s say, ‘soap dodgers’. The Met police, for instance, are committed to investigating complaints based on use of the word. So Swale is using, and you’re excusing, hate speech.

I’m all for living in a world where there is no name calling and no need for it but you have to be even handed about it

The other, possibly stronger argument for the word being hate speech is that Owen Jones says it isn’t

[ramAnag]

…and that sums the problem up, you laugh off, and excuse Swale’s use of ‘gammon’ yet would be appalled at the use of ‘coon’ or ‘pikey’’

Hate speech is defined as ‘abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group’, The people in question are a group, and are being prejudiced against based on an assumed physical characteristic,no different to, let’s say, ‘soap dodgers’. The Met police, for instance, are committed to investigating complaints based on use of the word. So Swale is using, and you’re excusing, hate speech.

I’m all for living in a world where there is no name calling and no need for it but you have to be even handed about it

But that’s the point Andy. Swale is winding you up. Providing you with a taste of your own medicine if you like.
After all, how many pejorative terms can you think of for black people, Indians, Pakistanis, Native Americans, Native Australians, Muslims etc, etc? I can think of hundreds that I won’t bother to mention on here, but come up with one other than ‘Honky’ for white people and oh...such indignation!
So maybe you need to rethink the ‘even handed’ approach.

[Andy_Faber]

But that’s the point Andy. Swale is winding you up. Providing you with a taste of your own medicine if you like.
After all, how many pejorative terms can you think of for black people, Indians, Pakistanis, Native Americans, Native Australians, Muslims etc, etc? I can think of hundreds that I won’t bother to mention on here, but come up with one other than ‘Honky’ for white people and oh...such indignation!
So maybe you need to rethink the ‘even handed’ approach.

No he’s not he’s being as hateful as anyone demeaning any of your example groups. It doesn’t matter how many names there are or how many in the group, it’s about the individual impact and as a teacher you should know that

[swaledale]

…and that sums the problem up, you laugh off, and excuse Swale’s use of ‘gammon’ yet would be appalled at the use of ‘coon’ or ‘pikey’’

Hate speech is defined as ‘abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group’, The people in question are a group, and are being prejudiced against based on an assumed physical characteristic,no different to, let’s say, ‘soap dodgers’. The Met police, for instance, are committed to investigating complaints based on use of the word. So Swale is using, and you’re excusing, hate speech.

I’m all for living in a world where there is no name calling and no need for it but you have to be even handed about it

The other, possibly stronger argument for the word being hate speech is that Owen Jones says it isn’t

He is not likely to grow up rA, I mean as soon as he expressed his view on Nadine Dorries, who might change aspects of the BBC which AF doesn't agree with, one just could not take him seriously any longer.

This is the guy who is supposedly concerned by there being "too much" ethnic representation on the media, especially apparently the BBC? Seems to me he does a lot of monitoring of stuff that actually is of no concern.

The reason you dislike the word Gammon is simple, it describes you and you are offended, but that doesn't make it hate speech or racist as you rather pathetically attempt to make out.

A an older white guy complaining about being called a name and crying racist or hate speech is a rather pathetic person IMO.

By the way I've been monitoring you for a while and there is a pattern and undercurrent in your posts, you try to seem reasonable and even handed, but your not, your true feelings and prejudices still shine through, as bad as Thickys and in fact you could say worse, because at least Thicky doesn't pretend not to be xenophobic and racist.

[swaledale]

So busying myself in Athens, working with a number of Italians and Greeks. Discussing brexit last night, they all ageed that BG was right to leave and that they wished their nations would / could leave to

Of course they could just be humouring you!

[ramAnag]

No he’s not he’s being as hateful as anyone demeaning any of your example groups. It doesn’t matter how many names there are or how many in the group, it’s about the individual impact and as a teacher you should know that

Please can we leave me having been a teacher out of this for once. It’s got nothing to do with the subject, I haven’t taught for over a decade, and it’s a little self righteous of you to start telling me what, ‘as a teacher’, I should or shouldn’t know.

Personally I don’t think Swale is being ‘hateful’. I think he’s simply taking the **** and demonstrating, mightily effectively as it happens judging from the outrage displayed by you and TTR, the impact of name calling based on race or religion.

I don’t condone the use of the word ‘gammon’ any more than I do ‘Honky’ but those so upset by the use of such terminology really do need to remember the imbalance that this stems from otherwise, as Swale suggests, there is a real danger of some old fashioned prejudice ‘shining through’.

I’ll leave it there for now, after all you might be ‘monitoring’ me too and it seems there’s just a little too much of that going on at the moment.

[MadAmster]

Are we really having a downer on collective nouns? Surely, any "offence" should be related to the wider meaning of a word IF that word has been used against you but the description doesn't fit.

Honky means you're white. No more, no less. That makes me a Honky. No issue with that. However, if a black person referred to me as such I wouldn't respond with N*gg*r because I know how deep that word cuts.

I would, however, object to being referred to as a gammon.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Surely we are all missing the point here, isn't it more a question of whether to prefer it with pineapple?

I actually have not heard anyone other than Swale using the expression and assumed it was a description of his making?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Of course they could just be humouring you!

They could have been but they weren't, since I was not expressing pro Brexit views myself... but now I can start collecting passport stamps again its such fun. Worth voting pro Brexit all in itself!!

[Andy_Faber]

Surely we are all missing the point here, isn't it more a question of whether to prefer it with pineapple?

I actually have not heard anyone other than Swale using the expression and assumed it was a description of his making?

Its used by a small but very vocal minority but Like Swale, it’s not especially popular. The phrase Gammon I mean, not the fruit pineapple - very 1970s but essential nonetheless IMO

[ramAnag]

Honky means you're white. No more, no less. That makes me a Honky. No issue with that. However, if a black person referred to me as such I wouldn't respond with N*gg*r because I know how deep that word cuts.

I would, however, object to being referred to as a gammon.

Probably, because you don’t - in either appearance or attitude - fit the ‘title’, MA.

To make my point though, and I don’t know how many of these will be allowed, below are just twenty or so of the racial slurs I’ve heard used by white people towards various, usually darker skinned, foreigners.

Coon, Wop, Abo, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, Golliwog, Wog, Redskin, Burrhead, Jungle Bunny, Nig-Nog, Spade, Nigger, Spook, Charlie, Chink, Coolie, Nip, Paki, Sand nigger, Camel Jockey, Towelhead, Raghead, Dago, Prarie nigger...........................and those are just the ones I can think of.

I know two wrongs don’t make a right but is it any wonder there’s been a degree of fightback with terms such as honky and gammon? Maybe those in search of ‘even handedness’ might consider the above.

Wow...how odd, you can write Nigger but not v*t*l, s*x or t**n. Glad to know the forum has its priorities so well sorted.

[MadAmster]

Surely we are all missing the point here, isn't it more a question of whether to prefer it with pineapple?

I actually have not heard anyone other than Swale using the expression and assumed it was a description of his making?

Gammon is a pejorative popularised in British political culture since around 2012. The term refers in particular to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, as compared to the type of pork of the same name.[1][2] It is defined in this context by the Oxford English Dictionary as "various parasynthetic adjectives referring to particularly reddish or florid complexions".[3]

In 2018, it became particularly known as a term to describe either those on the political right or those who supported Brexit.[1][4] Due to its origins as a reference to skin color, there is considerable debate over whether the term may be considered racist.

Taken from..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammon_(insult)