OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Andy, perhaps there’s been a misunderstanding. I genuinely don’t know and would suggest your big wooden spoon, where anything involving Swale and myself is concerned, doesn’t help.
Beyond that I can only suggest that you re read the posts from last Sunday and in particular posts 8963, 8968-8974, 8976-8977, 8979-8980, 8983, 8986 and 9013-9015. It’s not as much as it sounds.
My confusion/interpretation centres around MA’s question and TTR’s reply, ‘Yes the statistics of what he quoted don’t include the demographics that I quoted’.
I really don’t know what that means, what it implies about the alleged relationship between Statista and YouGov and whether it devalues the criticism of my/Statista’s figures by Tricky and yourself or not. Until it’s explained - and I have asked - I can comment know further on the statistics issue.

Forget Tricky for a minute. I'll reiterate: Statista got the data you quote from yougov. Yougov have (and admit themselves) that they have a liberal/left bias that they don't correct. I'll now add that it doesn't account for all the shift in the change in voter opinion regarding Brexit that they report. Thats being fairly even handed in commenting on both sides of the argument if there is one.

For further flavour I included my own observation, which backed up one by Ramshank, which two posts confirmed a lack of movement in opinion (over various demographics, and irrelevant of original voter habit), which as it happens cast doubt (albeit unscientific) on the yougov findings

[ramAnag]

Changing the subject, and putting aside your glee at anything that show's the Tories in a bad light: What happens if he's right, and he's effectively been stitched up by an activist element of his staff? I'd be interested to know if you (coming from a different area of 'work' ie public sector v private sector) hadexperience of such behaviour? I saw 'it' (the inability to manage in a 'strong' manner) increasingly over my four decades in industry, yet in my last seven years working for a company from a more 'autocratic' culture I saw virtually none of it. The latter was certainly better for mental health, any given employee knew exactly where they stood, even if it wasn't especially good. Genuine question, what's your experience?

Seen it from both sides, AF. As regards Raab...who knows. He certainly doesn’t seem to have been as guilty of overt bullying as Williamson, there again there’s that old saying...‘no smoke without fire’ and I assume the investigation was thorough and impartial.

My own experience saw a great many dogmatic and dictatorial Heads and HoD’s in my early days of teaching in the late ‘70’s and ‘80’s. Things gradually began to improve, not least because my own generation of teachers seemed less inclined to accept such bullying.

Having said that the two best teachers I had as a pupil and the two best I actually worked for commanded respect as a result of a combination of firmness and fairness. No one messed with them but they genuinely earned respect as opposed to fear.

On the other side of the coin I have been involved in ‘whistleblowing’ against an established head who was acting dishonestly and inappropriately and it took a huge and unified effort to make the authorities sit up and take, very reluctant, notice. Establishments and authorities really don’t like being challenged in this way and without the unity I speak of we’d have lost.
Equally, as a Head, I was the subject of Union investigation having disciplined a member of staff who had acted, imo, particularly stupidly and unprofessionally. Fortunately, for me, they found in my favour and I tend to believe that once things reach any sort of investigative stage then eventually the truth will out.

[ramAnag]

Forget Tricky for a minute. I'll reiterate: Statista got the data you quote from yougov. Yougov have (and admit themselves) that they have a liberal/left bias that they don't correct. I'll now add that it doesn't account for all the shift in the change in voter opinion regarding Brexit that they report. Thats being fairly even handed in commenting on both sides of the argument if there is one.

I’d love to, in fact for a lot longer than a minute.
I have to take your word for it. I don’t know how you know but that isn’t me saying you’re wrong.
As I’ve said before, you mentioned a tiny adjustment by other pollsters...with differences as (possibly) significant as 55% v 32% such adjustments don’t seem terribly relevant...a point which I’m aware you’ve acknowledged.
Now...moving on...better things to do.

[Trickytreesreds]

I’d love to, in fact for a lot longer than a minute.
I have to take your word for it. I don’t know how you know but that isn’t me saying you’re wrong.
As I’ve said before, you mentioned a tiny adjustment by other pollsters...with differences as (possibly) significant as 55% v 32% such adjustments don’t seem terribly relevant...a point which I’m aware you’ve acknowledged.
Now...moving on...better things to do.

Hurrah.

[swaledale]

Just for balance I've identified an actual Brexit benefit!!

However, I am proud to announce that this has maybe all changed. Because I believe I have identified an Actual Brexit Benefit. And it is graced with magnificent garlands of irony.

It comes in the form of the new Digital Nomad Visa, just recently passed into law by the Spanish government. In essence it means remote workers, who make most of their money outside Spain, can now go and live in Spain and get residency – for five years or more – and they will only pay 15 per cent tax. All they need is health insurance, an annual income of €28,000 (£24,500), and proof that they are – wait for it – non EU nationals. This scheme, like similar schemes hoving into view in Portugal, Croatia, Greece, and elsewhere – is not available to EU citizens.

You see what I mean about irony. The first Actual Brexit Benefit, the first tangible bonus of our leaving the EU, is the ability to go and work in lovely sunny parts of the EU, and pay way less tax than any EU citizens.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...0EU%20citizens.

[SithHappens]

Just for balance I've identified an actual Brexit benefit!!

However, I am proud to announce that this has maybe all changed. Because I believe I have identified an Actual Brexit Benefit. And it is graced with magnificent garlands of irony.

It comes in the form of the new Digital Nomad Visa, just recently passed into law by the Spanish government. In essence it means remote workers, who make most of their money outside Spain, can now go and live in Spain and get residency – for five years or more – and they will only pay 15 per cent tax. All they need is health insurance, an annual income of €28,000 (£24,500), and proof that they are – wait for it – non EU nationals. This scheme, like similar schemes hoving into view in Portugal, Croatia, Greece, and elsewhere – is not available to EU citizens.

You see what I mean about irony. The first Actual Brexit Benefit, the first tangible bonus of our leaving the EU, is the ability to go and work in lovely sunny parts of the EU, and pay way less tax than any EU citizens.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...0EU%20citizens.

Can you get away without paying for a TV licence too ?

[MadAmster]

Just for balance I've identified an actual Brexit benefit!!

However, I am proud to announce that this has maybe all changed. Because I believe I have identified an Actual Brexit Benefit. And it is graced with magnificent garlands of irony.

It comes in the form of the new Digital Nomad Visa, just recently passed into law by the Spanish government. In essence it means remote workers, who make most of their money outside Spain, can now go and live in Spain and get residency – for five years or more – and they will only pay 15 per cent tax. All they need is health insurance, an annual income of €28,000 (£24,500), and proof that they are – wait for it – non EU nationals. This scheme, like similar schemes hoving into view in Portugal, Croatia, Greece, and elsewhere – is not available to EU citizens.

You see what I mean about irony. The first Actual Brexit Benefit, the first tangible bonus of our leaving the EU, is the ability to go and work in lovely sunny parts of the EU, and pay way less tax than any EU citizens.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...0EU%20citizens.

Always knew keeping my UK Passport would have some benefits

I only pay 20% as it is.

[SithHappens]

Thinking about it though, imagine the irony of being able to move to another country to be able to earn less tax, when many of those voting leave did so to stop people coming unto the UK to earn a honest buck.

[swaledale]

You do ahve to laugh at the architects of the disaster that is Brexit! Its a complete cluster****, but according to Rees-Mogg its all down to us Remainers who out of government and out numbered by a rabid right wing press, are apparently undermining Brexit, which is why its so ****e!!

reminds me of work, where when a project that was never destined to succeed failed, the cheer leaders for it would blame the naysayers who pointed out at the start that it was doomed to fail!! Classic deflection of the blame to those not responsible!!

[ramAnag]

You do ahve to laugh at the architects of the disaster that is Brexit! Its a complete cluster****, but according to Rees-Mogg its all down to us Remainers who out of government and out numbered by a rabid right wing press, are apparently undermining Brexit, which is why its so ****e!!

reminds me of work, where when a project that was never destined to succeed failed, the cheer leaders for it would blame the naysayers who pointed out at the start that it was doomed to fail!! Classic deflection of the blame to those not responsible!!

Well you would ‘have to laugh’ if the consequences weren’t so severe.

Final sentence...totally nailed it...but unfortunately approximately 50% of the ‘active electorate’ cannot accept their accountability and responsibility. We see it regularly on here, so imagine how unlikely the politicians responsible are to accept any blame.

[MadAmster]

The UK needs a credible 3rd party who will look after ALL sections of the populace from the 1% to the poor, the fit to the infirm. A party that will champion business but not at the expense of the workers. People before profit. proper living wage. Genuine windfall tax, not one offset by tax relief. If external circumstances see a 1 off downturn in profits similar to the current excess and obscene and unearned profits then give companies a tax break. Etc... one for all and all for one, basically.

If that fails we could always follow the French example and revolt...

[swaledale]

The UK needs a credible 3rd party who will look after ALL sections of the populace from the 1% to the poor, the fit to the infirm. A party that will champion business but not at the expense of the workers. People before profit. proper living wage. Genuine windfall tax, not one offset by tax relief. If external circumstances see a 1 off downturn in profits similar to the current excess and obscene and unearned profits then give companies a tax break. Etc... one for all and all for one, basically.

If that fails we could always follow the French example and revolt...

I rather think thats what Starmer is trying to do, even if he is rather unconvincing!! Me, I'm not really bothered in catering for those ****wits that voted for Brexit!!

[ramAnag]

The UK needs a credible 3rd party who will look after ALL sections of the populace from the 1% to the poor, the fit to the infirm. A party that will champion business but not at the expense of the workers. People before profit. proper living wage. Genuine windfall tax, not one offset by tax relief. If external circumstances see a 1 off downturn in profits similar to the current excess and obscene and unearned profits then give companies a tax break. Etc... one for all and all for one, basically.

You make it sound so simple...and you’d certainly have my vote.
Think it is what Starmer is trying to do, but the forces of greed and misplaced patriotism make it harder than it needs to be.
‘People before profit’...looking after ‘ALL sections of the populace’...good grief! Just waiting for you to be denounced as an ‘idealistic snowflake’ or something similar.
A Green/Lab/LibDem alliance might go a long way to achieving what you seek and would actually be electable. Unfortunately (perhaps)...after recent experience, there will be much mistrust of any new Party.

[Andy_Faber]

‘People before profit’...looking after ‘ALL sections of the populace’...good grief! Just waiting for you to be denounced as an ‘idealistic snowflake’ or something similar.
.

Snowflake no, I think we’ve moved into a post-insult era, idealistic yes, ‘people before profit’ is not realistic although there should be a balance (which is what taxes are for), I’d go for ‘all deserving sections of the populace’(ie not sporting rights dodgers for starters)

[Ramshank72]

The UK needs a credible 3rd party who will look after ALL sections of the populace from the 1% to the poor, the fit to the infirm. A party that will champion business but not at the expense of the workers. People before profit. proper living wage. Genuine windfall tax, not one offset by tax relief. If external circumstances see a 1 off downturn in profits similar to the current excess and obscene and unearned profits then give companies a tax break. Etc... one for all and all for one, basically.

If that fails we could always follow the French example and revolt...

UKIP revival?