OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

...and also hates working in a job that they feel is beneath them. Which is ok if it weren't for the fact that many have a bloated sense of self worth

[ramAnag]

UKIP are dead and buried, wiped out in local elections , if Farage returned to lead the Reform party, then there maybe a place for the neofascist voter, but I see Farage has admitted on TV that Brexit has been a failure.

Of course the claims are that it wasn't implemented properly, though goodness knows what that would ahve looked like! I mean we chose a hard Brexit, ignored the reality of matters like Northern Ireland etc. and have ended up in the mess we are in. I note that immigration is forecast to be higher than pre Brexit this year, just not from EU countries, that will please the Brexiteers.

Then one gets loons like Widdecombe and Braverman claiming that UK workers could train to be fruit pickers, butchers etc. Mm one problem there aren't enough of them and even if there were, they don't live where the jobs are and we all know the average Brit hates living anywhere other than the place they were brought up in!

Talking of which I saw the American equivalent this morning. Ticked all the boxes. On his pick up truck he had the following stickers, ‘Trump Won!’, a picture of a figure pi**ing on the word ‘Communism’, ‘Trump...Make America Great Again’, ‘BIDEN = Biggest Idiot Democrats Ever Nominated’, ‘My Family is Louder than Yours’, a picture of guns ‘evolving’ from a revolver to an automatic machine gun and of course a Confederate flag.
Don’t ya just love em? We didn’t stop to speak...although I did wonder if he was called Tricky.

[SithHappens]

Farage said if brexit was a failure he would move overseas, off you go then and don't come back.

[swaledale]

...and also hates working in a job that they feel is beneath them. Which is ok if it weren't for the fact that many have a bloated sense of self worth

Though to be fair most of those working above their pay grade do seem to be Tory MP's!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Talking of which I saw the American equivalent this morning. Ticked all the boxes. On his pick up truck he had the following stickers, ‘Trump Won!’, a picture of a figure pi**ing on the word ‘Communism’, ‘Trump...Make America Great Again’, ‘BIDEN = Biggest Idiot Democrats Ever Nominated’, ‘My Family is Louder than Yours’, a picture of guns ‘evolving’ from a revolver to an automatic machine gun and of course a Confederate flag.
Don’t ya just love em? We didn’t stop to speak...although I did wonder if he was called Tricky.

Probably a good idea not to stop to converse or you may have ended up tied to a tree and squealing like a pig. Was there a kid playing a banjo near by?

[MadAmster]

Probably a good idea not to stop to converse or you may have ended up tied to a tree and squealing like a pig. Was there a kid playing a banjo near by?

... making a deal with the devil...

[Geoff Parkstone]

Nah, that would have been at the crossroads a bit nearer Mississippi...

[ramAnag]

Probably a good idea not to stop to converse or you may have ended up tied to a tree and squealing like a pig. Was there a kid playing a banjo near by?

Fortunately I was wearing my redneck repellant, ‘Paddle faster...I hear banjo music’, t-shirt. Which reminds me...he had another sticker...‘Redneck Lives Matter’, which was at least vaguely funny.

[Trickytreesreds]

Just for the amusement regarding YOUGOV.

I have just particiapated in a survey about voting.

Current running questions/answers -

Should foreign nations be allowed to vote in the UK?
Yes- 69%

Should British nationals be allowed to vote in a UK election, whilst living abroad?
No- 61%

You couldn't make it up, with that site.

[Andy_Faber]

Kier.starmer@ hotmail.com
[email protected]
[email protected]…

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just for the amusement regarding YOUGOV.

I have just particiapated in a survey about voting.

Current running questions/answers -

Should foreign nations be allowed to vote in the UK?
Yes- 69%

Should British nationals be allowed to vote in a UK election, whilst living abroad?
No- 61%

You couldn't make it up, with that site.

Well you could really, if you apply the maxim of no taxation without representation, albeit in reverse

In scenario 1 I believe the proposal that foreign nationals who are settled taxpayers in the UK should be eligible to vote. I dont see a problem with that, although obviously it wouldn't be a permanent entitlement should they return to country of domicile. There is a potential conflict with wealthy overseas national non doms in the UK that would need ironing out, but I think the principle that if you contribute to the nations wealth then you should have a say in how it runs is fair.

Scenario 2 is a little more complex, but I imagine the negativity toward Brits abroad is also based on the fact that they probably pay no UK tax. I was in this scenario when I worked abroad in a tax haven in the 1980's. I was denied a postal vote, and sure as hell wasn't going to fly home to vote in a "pig with a blue rosette" constituency.

So curiously I have some sympathies towards the majority views in YOUGOV poll that you outline. If you adopt or shed residence and/or domicile then surely the consequences are correct?

[Trickytreesreds]

Well you could really, if you apply the maxim of no taxation without representation, albeit in reverse

In scenario 1 I believe the proposal that foreign nationals who are settled taxpayers in the UK should be eligible to vote. I dont see a problem with that, although obviously it wouldn't be a permanent entitlement should they return to country of domicile. There is a potential conflict with wealthy overseas national non doms in the UK that would need ironing out, but I think the principle that if you contribute to the nations wealth then you should have a say in how it runs is fair.

Scenario 2 is a little more complex, but I imagine the negativity toward Brits abroad is also based on the fact that they probably pay no UK tax. I was in this scenario when I worked abroad in a tax haven in the 1980's. I was denied a postal vote, and sure as hell wasn't going to fly home to vote in a "pig with a blue rosette" constituency.

So curiously I have some sympathies towards the majority views in YOUGOV poll that you outline. If you adopt or shed residence and/or domicile then surely the consequences are correct?

You answer would be understandable if the Brits abroad were entilted to vote in the same way.
As I understand it, Brits in the EU get no such concessions.
You are either a citizen or you are not.

Tax or no tax. The EU don't like it either.

#ECJ: Following the #UK withdrawal from the #EU, British nationals who lost their #EuropeanCitizenship no longer have the right to vote or to stand as a candidate in municipal elections in their Member State of residence #Brexit �� https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/Jo2_7052/
10:10 AM · Jun 9, 2022

[SithHappens]

I have no issue with people living here voting, i would say they should have been legally here for a certain period of time though, maybe 5 years suggests being settled.

Those overseas, how did it even work before? If they have no address in the UK how is their voted counted? How would they know what constituency to vote in?

[Trickytreesreds]

I have no issue with people living here voting, i would say they should have been legally here for a certain period of time though, maybe 5 years suggests being settled.

Those overseas, how did it even work before? If they have no address in the UK how is their voted counted? How would they know what constituency to vote in?

All valid points, except other countries especially our neighbours don't endorse it.

My point was more about the reasoning about the subject.
1.Starmer wants this?
2. In that Poll, knowing how left leaning biased it is. It's OK for foreign nationals to vote in the UK, but British born abroad cannot?

This is more to do with political plotting, than practicality and fairness.

[MadAmster]

I moved to the Netherlands in 1984. The first 18 months I paid UK Tax. Without actually doing anything to make it happen, there followed a 12 month period in which the UK believed I was paying NL tax and vice versa. I didn't complain. I then took on a new role, this time with a Dutch firm and have been paying NL tax ever since.

I was disenfranchised in 1999, having lived outside the UK for 15 years. As far as I know, that is still the case. You could vote in your old constituency during those 15 years. During the first couple of years I was here, there were no General Elections so there was nothing to vote on. When the 1987 election arrived, I was paying NL tax, not UK. I disenfranchised myself as I was, and still am, of the opinion that if you're not paying the membership fee (aka Tax) you shouldn't vote. I kept up that stance until my automatic disenfranchisement in '99, having been away 15 years.

So, should UK taxpaying foreign nationals be allowed to vote in the UK? It's a solid YES from me.

Should UK nationals who live abroad and pay no UK Tax be allowed to vote in the UK? It's a solid NO from me.

Not a left or right political choice, just something I believe and have applied to myself.