Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

Honestly…have you two lost the plot?

AF first…you introduced the term ‘side hustle’ and I actually quoted Henley who describe the term as meaning, ‘a small business or SECONDARY JOB in addition to their main career’. How am I wrong?

GP…I spent six years as a school governor and…other than serious wrongdoing or behaviour/condition which prevents a staff member from fulfilling their professional responsibilities…I can’t imagine any circumstances where school governors would have been allowed to discuss individual staff members’ private lives least of all in relation to pay.

[Trickytreesreds]

I don't think I know a single person with a 2nd job.

Of course my small circle of friends and family won't be representative either.

Of course i expect lots of people do have 2nd jobs, mostly to top up an inadequate income. However I would expect that 2nd job not to interfere with their 1st.

Do Farages side jobs interfere with his 1st, assuming his 1st is considered to be his job as an MP? It's early to tell especially as MPs are in their summer holidays right now.

My gut instinct is he will be a terrible MP for Clacton but I accept my personal opinion of him is clouding my judgement.

If he does a great job as MP for Clacton, makes himself available for constituents and prioritizes it over all else then if he does other work I don't see an issue.

I personally think he will bore of it quickly, I would be very surprised to see him see out all 5 years in the role.

Whilst I find the witch hunt of Farage hilarious. Most of his so called earnings were outside being elected an MP.
But seeing as the topic is raised, I don't agree with any MP having a second job.

However, perhaps having MP's and governent front benches. firmly in Unions back pockets needs looking at as well
How can it be fair and not open to question, when someone is lining your pockets with silver to represent them?
No coincidence, that pensioners are being punished and Unions pacified.

Ms Long-Bailey, who finished second to Keir Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership election, declared the most of Greater Manchester's 27 MPs. The Salford and Eccles MP received donations and a gift worth a total of £406,800, including £249,300 from the Unite trade union and £76,830 from left-wing political organisation Momentum.

That puts her in the top two per cent of all MPs with only 10 other members having taken in more money than her. Angela Rayner, Labour's deputy leader and MP for Ashton-under-Lyne, declared financial interests worth £300,200, the vast majority of which were donations from trade unions.

Wigan MP Lisa Nandy, Shadow Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, is also in the top 20 for MPs' earnings. She has declared financial interests worth £286,700, again, the vast majority of which were donations from trade unions.

Mmmmmm call me suspicious , but I suspect bias in policy decisions here

[Geoff Parkstone]

Honestly…have you two lost the plot?

AF first…you introduced the term ‘side hustle’ and I actually quoted Henley who describe the term as meaning, ‘a small business or SECONDARY JOB in addition to their main career’. How am I wrong?

GP…I spent six years as a school governor and…other than serious wrongdoing or behaviour/condition which prevents a staff member from fulfilling their professional responsibilities…I can’t imagine any circumstances where school governors would have been allowed to discuss individual staff members’ private lives least of all in relation to pay.

Well it was....this was a small primary school whereas I'm guessing you governed a larger secondary school? Don't know if that makes a difference.

IIRC (and it was maybe 20 years ago) the context was setting up holiday clubs across summer and looking for teachers (and TA's) to run them as "extra hours". Most had other work commitments.

But in general as chair of finance, salaries was maybe the biggest discussion points as it was a huge %age of revenue

[swaledale]

Whilst I find the witch hunt of Farage hilarious. Most of his so called earnings were outside being elected an MP.
But seeing as the topic is raised, I don't agree with any MP having a second job.

However, perhaps having MP's and governent front benches. firmly in Unions back pockets needs looking at as well
How can it be fair and not open to question, when someone is lining your pockets with silver to represent them?
No coincidence, that pensioners are being punished and Unions pacified.

Ms Long-Bailey, who finished second to Keir Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership election, declared the most of Greater Manchester's 27 MPs. The Salford and Eccles MP received donations and a gift worth a total of £406,800, including £249,300 from the Unite trade union and £76,830 from left-wing political organisation Momentum.

That puts her in the top two per cent of all MPs with only 10 other members having taken in more money than her. Angela Rayner, Labour's deputy leader and MP for Ashton-under-Lyne, declared financial interests worth £300,200, the vast majority of which were donations from trade unions.

Wigan MP Lisa Nandy, Shadow Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, is also in the top 20 for MPs' earnings. She has declared financial interests worth £286,700, again, the vast majority of which were donations from trade unions.

Mmmmmm call me suspicious , but I suspect bias in policy decisions here

Mm so Farage isn't still a presenter on GBNews or GBeebies as sentient folk refer to it?

Your missing the point as always - witch-hunt of Farage my arse, but if you are stupid enough to think somebody funded by billionaires is truly working in the interests of yourself or the dumb asses who voted for Reform, then you really are stupider than you appear, which I honestly didn't think was possible. Kind of like the Clacton voter interviewed on the media who blamed immigration on everything from the state of the NHS to lack of housing, only to look surprised when advised that actually in Clacton the majority of the population is white, so those issues weren't down to migrants

So shock horror, Labour is partly funded by trade unions, thats kind of the point of the Labour party! I might add that those who denigrate unions conveniently forget that most of the rights enjoyed by workers today were achieved by unions, but hey selective amnesia and ignoring reality is kind of your speciality.

**** me please come back when you have got something worthwhile reading, which will be never!

Toodle pip!

[swaledale]

Honestly…have you two lost the plot?

AF first…you introduced the term ‘side hustle’ and I actually quoted Henley who describe the term as meaning, ‘a small business or SECONDARY JOB in addition to their main career’. How am I wrong?

GP…I spent six years as a school governor and…other than serious wrongdoing or behaviour/condition which prevents a staff member from fulfilling their professional responsibilities…I can’t imagine any circumstances where school governors would have been allowed to discuss individual staff members’ private lives least of all in relation to pay.

Who would ahve thought that a simple factual post about where "our Nige" got his money from and how much, would result in GP and AF ignoring the point and trying and failing miserably to make it about me lifting a set of figures from one article? I mean I could ahve lifted them from the public parliamentary record I guess, but what the difference would be I don't really know.

I can also add a complete failure on AF's part to understand what 1 in 4 means!! Accountants eh? I always did have the idea that they were part of the problem in todays world and we are seeing that problem writ large on this forum.

Ah well its given me a laugh at how desperate some are to attack me rather than the point I make, which is further hypocrisy on AF's part.

[Trickytreesreds]

Mm so Farage isn't still a presenter on GBNews or GBeebies as sentient folk refer to it?

Your missing the point as always - witch-hunt of Farage my arse, but if you are stupid enough to think somebody funded by billionaires is truly working in the interests of yourself or the dumb asses who voted for Reform, then you really are stupider than you appear, which I honestly didn't think was possible. Kind of like the Clacton voter interviewed on the media who blamed immigration on everything from the state of the NHS to lack of housing, only to look surprised when advised that actually in Clacton the majority of the population is white, so those issues weren't down to migrants

So shock horror, Labour is partly funded by trade unions, thats kind of the point of the Labour party! I might add that those who denigrate unions conveniently forget that most of the rights enjoyed by workers today were achieved by unions, but hey selective amnesia and ignoring reality is kind of your speciality.

**** me please come back when you have got something worthwhile reading, which will be never!

Toodle pip!

Another rant of drivvel as normal
Are you telling me, the front bench devote all their time to their constituents?
Farage was elected as a statement, everyone can see this., except you I suppose.

Anyway, you failed to answer the point. How is it right that MP's running a government are in the Unions back pocket on the pay roll?
We have already seen pensioners hammered to give the likes of train drivers(if ever there was an over rated job, this is it) another pay rise.
The sooner that industry is automated, the better.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/18/cabinet-ministers-accepted-480000-unions-striking-pay-deals/

[MadAmster]

If GBNews was a football club, they'd be getting a huge points deduction for breaching FFP regulations.

I thought, and I may be wrong on this, that MPs weren't allowed to be presenters/interviewers on TV/Radio.

When I was a teacher, I did have a 2nd job of sorts. In reality it was more of a hobby. Buying and selling records and DJing at weekends. I never counted it as a job, myself, as the annual net cost of buying/selling records and buying/maintaining decks, mixers, speakers and assorted leads plus travel costs to gigs far outweighed any income from that "job". A hobby as is the case with many musicians as well as DJs. One that costs more than it delivers, financially. The mental payoff is great, though. The satisfaction of keeping the floor filled during a set and then enjoying the sounds played by your fellow DJs. Chats with like minded souls. I think AF would agree, most musicians and most DJs don't do it for the money as they'd pretty soon quit if they did.

MPs 2nd jobs? Some, like doctors and other professions HAVE to do a certain level of hours or they'd not be able to go back to being a doc when they leave Parliament. I have no issue with those. Does that mean I immediately say the rest shouldn't do extra curricular work? In an ideal world, Politicians would be politicians and just that. No 2nd jobs. However, in a world where we strive (and all too often fail) for equality, if one MP can have a 2nd or even a 10th job then it's, IMO, discriminatory to prevent other MPs from similar. I do, however, believe that there should be a limit on how many hours a week they spend on their "side hustle". If doctors etc need, for instance, 8 hours a week of doctoring to maintain their credentials, then that is the time they all may spend on those SH's. Fairness all round.

If my thought that MPs are excluded from being political presenters/interviewers on GBeebies are incorrect then I'd like it to become a rule.

[Andy_Faber]

If GBNews was a football club, they'd be getting a huge points deduction for breaching FFP regulations.

I thought, and I may be wrong on this, that MPs weren't allowed to be presenters/interviewers on TV/Radio.

When I was a teacher, I did have a 2nd job of sorts. In reality it was more of a hobby. Buying and selling records and DJing at weekends. I never counted it as a job, myself, as the annual net cost of buying/selling records and buying/maintaining decks, mixers, speakers and assorted leads plus travel costs to gigs far outweighed any income from that "job". A hobby as is the case with many musicians as well as DJs. One that costs more than it delivers, financially. The mental payoff is great, though. The satisfaction of keeping the floor filled during a set and then enjoying the sounds played by your fellow DJs. Chats with like minded souls. I think AF would agree, most musicians and most DJs don't do it for the money as they'd pretty soon quit if they did.

MPs 2nd jobs? Some, like doctors and other professions HAVE to do a certain level of hours or they'd not be able to go back to being a doc when they leave Parliament. I have no issue with those. Does that mean I immediately say the rest shouldn't do extra curricular work? In an ideal world, Politicians would be politicians and just that. No 2nd jobs. However, in a world where we strive (and all too often fail) for equality, if one MP can have a 2nd or even a 10th job then it's, IMO, discriminatory to prevent other MPs from similar. I do, however, believe that there should be a limit on how many hours a week they spend on their "side hustle". If doctors etc need, for instance, 8 hours a week of doctoring to maintain their credentials, then that is the time they all may spend on those SH's. Fairness all round.

If my thought that MPs are excluded from being political presenters/interviewers on GBeebies are incorrect then I'd like it to become a rule.

Yup, well put in all aspects although imo the last paragraph should include ALL media outlets

[ramAnag]

Well it was....this was a small primary school whereas I'm guessing you governed a larger secondary school? Don't know if that makes a difference.

IIRC (and it was maybe 20 years ago) the context was setting up holiday clubs across summer and looking for teachers (and TA's) to run them as "extra hours". Most had other work commitments.

But in general as chair of finance, salaries was maybe the biggest discussion points as it was a huge %age of revenue

Hmmm…so we’ve gone from ‘I thought MOST teachers had second jobs’ to…20 years ago we struggled to find teachers and TA’s to staff holiday clubs.
As I’m sure you know the situation for TA’s is very different from teachers. Unlike teachers, the former are not ‘salaried’ throughout the year and seeking alternative employment throughout the summer is consequently not uncommon, they may therefore have made other longstanding arrangements.

Beyond that I’m amazed that, in a small primary school you were awarded the somewhat grandiose title of Chair of Finance and I also suspect you may have misinterpreted commitments as ‘work commitments’. Many teachers have ‘commitments’ during the summer but they are more typically of the holiday or child care variety - also applicable to TA’s - and a very far cry from demonstrating your initial claim that MOST teachers have second jobs.

It seems our two accountants both, somewhat surprisingly, seem to struggle with the concept of ‘most’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hmmm…so we’ve gone from ‘I thought MOST teachers had second jobs’ to…20 years ago we struggled to find teachers and TA’s to staff holiday clubs.
As I’m sure you know the situation for TA’s is very different from teachers. Unlike teachers, the former are not ‘salaried’ throughout the year and seeking alternative employment throughout the summer is consequently not uncommon, they may therefore have made other longstanding arrangements.

Beyond that I’m amazed that, in a small primary school you were awarded the somewhat grandiose title of Chair of Finance and I also suspect you may have misinterpreted commitments as ‘work commitments’. Many teachers have ‘commitments’ during the summer but they are more typically of the holiday or child care variety - also applicable to TA’s - and a very far cry from demonstrating your initial claim that MOST teachers have second jobs.

It seems our two accountants both, somewhat surprisingly, seem to struggle with the concept of ‘most’.

Why would it surprise you that the only accountant on the governing body was awarded Chair of Finance? Would it have been better had the reception year teacher representative be given the role?

Maybe our governing body was organized differently as a small school with no administrative staff with any financial background so needed free external aid when budgeting and reviewing expenditure etc

Anyway the point was and is, based on that experience, I observed all staff getting alternative jobs during summer holidays (no idea if a second job during term time, although I saw a couple the other side of the local bar at times). I've no reason to assume it's any different now as most teachers claim to be hard up (well everyone does, not singling them out)

[MadAmster]

Yup, well put in all aspects although imo the last paragraph should include ALL media outlets

I DID, in the 2nd paragraph.

[ramAnag]

Why would it surprise you that the only accountant on the governing body was awarded Chair of Finance? Would it have been better had the reception year teacher representative be given the role?

Maybe our governing body was organized differently as a small school with no administrative staff with any financial background so needed free external aid when budgeting and reviewing expenditure etc

Anyway the point was and is, based on that experience, I observed all staff getting alternative jobs during summer holidays (no idea if a second job during term time, although I saw a couple the other side of the local bar at times). I've no reason to assume it's any different now as most teachers claim to be hard up (well everyone does, not singling them out)

In no way am I questioning your ability to do the job, I’m just questioning the role. In my experience the initial matter of budgeting would have been done by the Head/SMT and the Bursar/Secretary and then, having ‘split’ the budget accordingly, would have been passed down to departmental heads.

At some point in between the budget would have been approved by the Governors but they would have had nothing to do with the minutiae involved.

Because such a vast proportion of the budget goes on salaries - more a comment on schools being underfunded than staff receiving excessive wages imo - ‘splitting’ the budget isn’t the most arduous of tasks and, as an accountant (a coincidence rather than a prerequisite) you would have less idea than the average departmental head on where what was left might be best spent.

Interestingly you’ve now moved in the opposite direction to AF and gone from ‘most’ staff having second jobs to ‘ALL staff getting alternative jobs during summer holidays’. That’s a scenario I do struggle to recognise.

[ramAnag]

If GBNews was a football club, they'd be getting a huge points deduction for breaching FFP regulations.

I thought, and I may be wrong on this, that MPs weren't allowed to be presenters/interviewers on TV/Radio.

When I was a teacher, I did have a 2nd job of sorts. In reality it was more of a hobby. Buying and selling records and DJing at weekends. I never counted it as a job, myself, as the annual net cost of buying/selling records and buying/maintaining decks, mixers, speakers and assorted leads plus travel costs to gigs far outweighed any income from that "job". A hobby as is the case with many musicians as well as DJs. One that costs more than it delivers, financially. The mental payoff is great, though. The satisfaction of keeping the floor filled during a set and then enjoying the sounds played by your fellow DJs. Chats with like minded souls. I think AF would agree, most musicians and most DJs don't do it for the money as they'd pretty soon quit if they did.

MPs 2nd jobs? Some, like doctors and other professions HAVE to do a certain level of hours or they'd not be able to go back to being a doc when they leave Parliament. I have no issue with those. Does that mean I immediately say the rest shouldn't do extra curricular work? In an ideal world, Politicians would be politicians and just that. No 2nd jobs. However, in a world where we strive (and all too often fail) for equality, if one MP can have a 2nd or even a 10th job then it's, IMO, discriminatory to prevent other MPs from similar. I do, however, believe that there should be a limit on how many hours a week they spend on their "side hustle". If doctors etc need, for instance, 8 hours a week of doctoring to maintain their credentials, then that is the time they all may spend on those SH's. Fairness all round.

If my thought that MPs are excluded from being political presenters/interviewers on GBeebies are incorrect then I'd like it to become a rule.

Agreeing, as usual, with the sentiment and sense of most of that however…I’m not sure how many examples there are - other than the doctors one which you have provided - where people need to keep their hand in to maintain their proficiency.

Wouldn’t it be fairer if those doctors (and the like) who wish to become MP’s could be provided with some sort of annual maintenance/refresher course at no cost to themselves rather than be expected to do your (hypothetical?) 8 hours a week which, imo, will only lead to them failing to fulfil their roles as both doctors and MP’s properly.

Overall I’d like to see no second jobs, total commitment to the role they’ve been elected to and paid to do out of the public purse, no opportunity for self aggrandisement via TV or other aspects of the media and absolutely no opportunity to jet off to the other side of the Atlantic in support of another election campaign.

[Trickytreesreds]

Overall I’d like to see no second jobs, total commitment to the role they’ve been elected to and paid to do out of the public purse, no opportunity for self aggrandisement via TV or other aspects of the media and absolutely no opportunity to jet off to the other side of the Atlantic in support of another election campaign.

Obviously that is aimed at Farage. Now I don't like any MP having a second job. It can and does lead toa conflict of interest.
But the same thing happens with Labour MP's, as recently shown 50% of them get funds from unions.
Is this a second job?
It certainly means that they are being influenced and their decisions being lob sided.

Personally, I'd up the salary, no second jobs, no back handers.
You either do the job as it stands or not at all.
When a bloody train driver can get nearly as much as an MP, for pulling a few levers, pushing a few buttons. Then something is seriously wrong.

[MadAmster]

Cash, gifts and free dinners/lunches from lobbyists should be banned, IMO. How many lobbyists would then get an MPs time and how much time would they get.