Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Who’s suggested there isn’t a problem? There are obviously huge problems, both worldwide and domestically but George Galloway is almost an irrelevance.
He’s stepped in, in his inimitable way, to fill a vacuum and take personal advantage. It’s typical Galloway, the other Parties, including those more likely to have your support, couldn’t profit from Labour’s c@ck up, but he’ll still be gone at the General Election when he’s replaced by a more carefully selected Labour candidate.

Funny thing, as Andy has already intimated, there was very little of the ‘Muslim bashing’ stuff on this thread prior to your return. I think it took you about two posts before the ‘grooming gang’, ‘terrorist’, they’re taking over the world anti Muslim rants started…so there is a problem, yes…and folk like you are a huge part of it.

Freedom of speech rA, freedom of speech Surely a core plank of your political platform?? Evelyn Beatrice Hall time again.....

[ramAnag]

Generally speaking, GP and I wasn’t suggesting TTR should be censored. Topically, I note that a ****ager has been banned from all football grounds for three years because of his appalling language and swearing on the train from the Peterborough match to Derby.
One wonders what old Evelyn would have said about that.
Likewise…should extremists be allowed to continue their sh1t stirring by voicing exaggeration and discriminatory opinions when they only serve to exacerbate an already volatile situation?
Fine lines…don’t claim to have the answer.

[Trickytreesreds]

I’m not disputing that GP is right and that ‘British politics is a right mess’, but to say that I’ve ‘ignored, excused and covered up’ the problem is laughable…and the only thing Galloway has tapped into is the vacuum left by the absence of an official Labour candidate and the fact that over 60% of Rochdale’s electorate stayed at home.

Sorry RA that's not true.
Take the fiasco of the grooming gangs, which still goes on. Your answer to it everytime was, but but but there are White British peados as well.

Yes of course, but they are not operating in a tight catchment area, targetting vulnerable white girls only and belonging to a particular religion, from the same part of the world.
The native peado;s aren't being avoided by the social services/ councils/police either in case it causes a racial back lash.

That is the problem, stop being in denial and call out ANY PROBLEM ANYWHERE, no matter who it offends.
There is way too much cowardice in the authorities, to deal with issues caused by ethnic minorities in case it rocks the boat. If we are to be a multi cultural nation, then law/accontablity applies to all.

How bad is it, when a Muslin issue, thousands of miles away, is used a main selling point in a political campaign. Just to curry favour with Islam voters?
Obviously, Islam is more important to some, than the running of a country.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"curry favour with Islamic voters"

LOL, nice one Tricky 😄😄

[Andy_Faber]

"curry favour with Islamic voters"

LOL, nice one Tricky ����

flavour maybe

[Andy_Faber]

1. Who’s suggested there isn’t a problem? There are obviously huge problems, both worldwide and domestically

2. but George Galloway is almost an irrelevance.

3. more carefully selected Labour candidate.

4. Funny thing, as Andy has already intimated, there was very little of the ‘Muslim bashing’ stuff on this thread prior to your return. and folk like you are a huge part of it.

1. I think you rA and TTR are talking about different problems, in fact I think you are talking about almost the exact OPPOSITE problem - If I may guess, The Rise of Islam v. The demonisation of Islam

2. I'm not so sure, my guess is that both major parties have seen the impact a decent orator (you must admit) with the right message has in terms of voter impact. (superficially or genuine) Pro-Palestine Labour GE candidates may see this positively impacting their vote, BUT supposing more 'Workers Party' candidates spring up in other Labour held/hoped for and Gaza-sympathetic wards, the impact could be as bad as Reform might be to the Conservatives. By the way I'm told the London Mayoral Election might go the way of pro-Palestine v. Anti-ULEZ which is interesting (to me)

3. 'More carefully selected', yes better wording this time!

4. I think better debate is had by letting TTR (and those at the opposite end of the argument I guess) have their say and then try to discuss rather than just describing it as 'Muslim bashing'. I can personally support either when their POV's are based on at least a bit of fact, (I'll point out the gov.uk report TTR referred to last week which I went to the trouble of studying and it did support his line of argument, but point out also the unfounded comment from elsewhere 'There are more bad 'Christians' than Muslims', a nice bit of 'Christian bashing' to throw in the mix) and support any retort when its objective and not filled with bile.

NB picking on your messages isn't me 'picking on you' personally, your messages just have more structure which enables structured reply is all

[ramAnag]

1. I think you rA and TTR are talking about different problems, in fact I think you are talking about almost the exact OPPOSITE problem - If I may guess, The Rise of Islam v. The demonisation of Islam

2. I'm not so sure, my guess is that both major parties have seen the impact a decent orator (you must admit) with the right message has in terms of voter impact. (superficially or genuine) Pro-Palestine Labour GE candidates may see this positively impacting their vote, BUT supposing more 'Workers Party' candidates spring up in other Labour held/hoped for and Gaza-sympathetic wards, the impact could be as bad as Reform might be to the Conservatives. By the way I'm told the London Mayoral Election might go the way of pro-Palestine v. Anti-ULEZ which is interesting (to me)

3. 'More carefully selected', yes better wording this time!

4. I think better debate is had by letting TTR (and those at the opposite end of the argument I guess) have their say and then try to discuss rather than just describing it as 'Muslim bashing'. I can personally support either when their POV's are based on at least a bit of fact, (I'll point out the gov.uk report TTR referred to last week which I went to the trouble of studying and it did support his line of argument, but point out also the unfounded comment from elsewhere 'There are more bad 'Christians' than Muslims', a nice bit of 'Christian bashing' to throw in the mix) and support any retort when its objective and not filled with bile.

NB picking on your messages isn't me 'picking on you' personally, your messages just have more structure which enables structured reply is all

Andy…it was you who first criticised the thread for developing into the ‘usual Islam bitchfest’…I was merely running with it.

I hadn’t for one moment thought you were ‘picking on me personally’.

[ramAnag]

Sorry RA that's not true.
Take the fiasco of the grooming gangs, which still goes on. Your answer to it everytime was, but but but there are White British peados as well.

Yes of course, but they are not operating in a tight catchment area, targetting vulnerable white girls only and belonging to a particular religion, from the same part of the world.
The native peado;s aren't being avoided by the social services/ councils/police either in case it causes a racial back lash.

That is the problem, stop being in denial and call out ANY PROBLEM ANYWHERE, no matter who it offends.
There is way too much cowardice in the authorities, to deal with issues caused by ethnic minorities in case it rocks the boat. If we are to be a multi cultural nation, then law/accontablity applies to all.

How bad is it, when a Muslin issue, thousands of miles away, is used a main selling point in a political campaign. Just to curry favour with Islam voters?
Obviously, Islam is more important to some, than the running of a country.

I bring it up…yes, but it isn’t an answer. As I’ve said before…I have never been someone who has disputed the existence of ‘grooming gangs’, and I have come across that scenario, professionally in Derby, so I do, or did, know what I was talking about.

Are, or were, there a minority of social workers/local council officials reluctant to acknowledge the problems for the reasons you suggest? I believe so…yes.

This doesn’t excuse it but I also, professionally, came across an alarming number of white, locally bred, parents and relatives who were a) complicit in not caring less what there kids were getting up to and b) involved in much more solitary s@xual exploitation of young girls including, on occasions, their own children, nieces and grandchildren.

It’s a particularly unpleasant can of worms Tricky and the biggest difference is that where the grooming gangs take a collective form the more ‘home grown’ exploiters/abusers are more likely to act alone. Doesn’t make a lot of difference to the victim but you can’t demonise one group while ignoring the other.

[ramAnag]

In other news…The i is reporting that our illustrious Government is to ‘pay Rwanda £2m per person to relocate 300 asylum seekers’.
Utter madness, but let’s keep being sidetracked by the silliness over Galloway and those pesky Muslims.

[swaledale]

Freedom of speech rA, freedom of speech Surely a core plank of your political platform?? Evelyn Beatrice Hall time again.....

Freedom of speech is fine, but when sections of the general populace swallow the fake news and lies that's pumped out on social media, deliberately spreading stuff that whilst it may have a basis in truth does not stand up to scrutiny then we have a problem.

It was bad enough in Nazi Germany when the propaganda and "hate" stirring didn't have the benefit of the internet and AI. I do fear as to what will happen in both the Uk and US elections, with the ability of foreign actors able to spew out stuff that they know tickles the fancy of people like TTR, who are only to willing to believe stuff that suits their prejudice.

Given its clear that certain sections of the Tory party plus those ****ers at Reform will be creating division and spreading racist and bigoted rants that can only inflame things further.

[Andy_Faber]

Andy…it was you who first criticised the thread for developing into the ‘usual Islam bitchfest’…I was merely running with it.

I hadn’t for one moment thought you were ‘picking on me personally’.

That’s ok then, you were just a victim of good grammatical structure

[Trickytreesreds]

I bring it up…yes, but it isn’t an answer. As I’ve said before…I have never been someone who has disputed the existence of ‘grooming gangs’, and I have come across that scenario, professionally in Derby, so I do, or did, know what I was talking about.

Are, or were, there a minority of social workers/local council officials reluctant to acknowledge the problems for the reasons you suggest? I believe so…yes.

This doesn’t excuse it but I also, professionally, came across an alarming number of white, locally bred, parents and relatives who were a) complicit in not caring less what there kids were getting up to and b) involved in much more solitary s@xual exploitation of young girls including, on occasions, their own children, nieces and grandchildren.

It’s a particularly unpleasant can of worms Tricky and the biggest difference is that where the grooming gangs take a collective form the more ‘home grown’ exploiters/abusers are more likely to act alone. Doesn’t make a lot of difference to the victim but you can’t demonise one group while ignoring the other.

RA, I am not picking on one type of peado, ahead of anyone.
What I don't like,7
1. is the scale in a small area of racially tagetted white girls only, that should ring alarm bells
2. The girls were ignored despite cries for help
3. The authorites were "scared" to do anything incase cries of "racist" and riots broke out.

That is the crux of it. Ignore a problem or excuse it, only feeds it and it manifests into other things.
Now we have the attacks and attempts to tell schools/ politicians how society will run.

Name me one other "extreme" group at this moment of time, causing such chaos and divisiveness.

Folks are under the impression, that the whole country is one happy family of diversity. It isn't and my views get shouted down for pointing it out. I mentioned Leicester and no one bothered to acknowledge that one.

[Trickytreesreds]

Freedom of speech is fine, but when sections of the general populace swallow the fake news and lies that's pumped out on social media, deliberately spreading stuff that whilst it may have a basis in truth does not stand up to scrutiny then we have a problem.

It was bad enough in Nazi Germany when the propaganda and "hate" stirring didn't have the benefit of the internet and AI. I do fear as to what will happen in both the Uk and US elections, with the ability of foreign actors able to spew out stuff that they know tickles the fancy of people like TTR, who are only to willing to believe stuff that suits their prejudice.

Given its clear that certain sections of the Tory party plus those ****ers at Reform will be creating division and spreading racist and bigoted rants that can only inflame things further.

So what racist and bigotted rants have I mentioned, that cannot be proven by recent actions?

You keep doing your apologistic stance and sweeping it under the carpet.
Meanwhile London burned, whilst SWALE FIDDLED

[ramAnag]

RA, I am not picking on one type of peado, ahead of anyone.
What I don't like,7
1. is the scale in a small area of racially tagetted white girls only, that should ring alarm bells
2. The girls were ignored despite cries for help
3. The authorites were "scared" to do anything incase cries of "racist" and riots broke out.

That is the crux of it. Ignore a problem or excuse it, only feeds it and it manifests into other things.
Now we have the attacks and attempts to tell schools/ politicians how society will run.

Name me one other "extreme" group at this moment of time, causing such chaos and divisiveness.

Folks are under the impression, that the whole country is one happy family of diversity. It isn't and my views get shouted down for pointing it out. I mentioned Leicester and no one bothered to acknowledge that one.

Firstly Tricky, let’s get the terminology right. The s*xual abusers we are speaking of are unlikely to be *****philes. *****philes are those with a s*xual interest in prepubescent children who have never been the target of grooming gangs.
The ‘grooming gangs’, in my experience, are interested in te*nagers. That is NOT me being an apologist for them in any shape or form but the vast majority of victims, again in my experience, are white te*agers from inadequate backgrounds.

Again I am not defending the grooming gangs in any way at all, but they are not alone in their attraction to te*nagers or fascination with ****age promiscuity. The image of the British schoolgirl is a common enough ***ual fantasy in many walks of life including very well to do English ‘gentlemen’ and where cultures are concerned it is possible to see how our own scantily clad ****agers can give out mixed messages compared with the more ‘well concealed’ Muslim counterparts. Again…in no way is that either an apology or a justification…just a clarification.

Name you one other ‘extreme’ group causing such chaos and divisiveness? Anyone on the extreme Right, especially Tommy Robinson and his henchmen, who will try and make political capital and cause social division at the slightest opportunity. You may not be as extreme but, as our resident advocate of right wing opinions, one only has to look at how your return has rapidly turned a General Election thread into something preoccupied with your own personal obsession…Islam.

As for Leicester. The rioting over, superficially at least, a cricket match was stupid, self defeating and unforgivable. It was also quite a long time ago and quite reminiscent of the predominantly white violence that took place at and after a Forest v Leicester football match in, if memory serves, the same year but, in your own words…you never ‘bothered to acknowledge that one’.

P.S. Sorry about the asterisks. There are so many I gave up trying to avoid them.

[Andy_Faber]

Firstly Tricky, let’s get the terminology right. The s*xual abusers we are speaking of are unlikely to be *****philes. *****philes are those with a s*xual interest in prepubescent children who have never been the target of grooming gangs.
The ‘grooming gangs’, in my experience, are interested in te*nagers. That is NOT me being an apologist for them in any shape or form but the vast majority of victims, again in my experience, are white te*agers from inadequate backgrounds.

Again I am not defending the grooming gangs in any way at all, but they are not alone in their attraction to te*nagers or fascination with ****age promiscuity. The image of the British schoolgirl is a common enough ***ual fantasy in many walks of life including very well to do English ‘gentlemen’ and where cultures are concerned it is possible to see how our own scantily clad ****agers can give out mixed messages compared with the more ‘well concealed’ Muslim counterparts. Again…in no way is that either an apology or a justification…just a clarification.

Name you one other ‘extreme’ group causing such chaos and divisiveness? Anyone on the extreme Right, especially Tommy Robinson and his henchmen, who will try and make political capital and cause social division at the slightest opportunity. You may not be as extreme but, as our resident advocate of right wing opinions, one only has to look at how your return has rapidly turned a General Election thread into something preoccupied with your own personal obsession…Islam.

As for Leicester. The rioting over, superficially at least, a cricket match was stupid, self defeating and unforgivable. It was also quite a long time ago and quite reminiscent of the predominantly white violence that took place at and after a Forest v Leicester football match in, if memory serves, the same year but, in your own words…you never ‘bothered to acknowledge that one’.

P.S. Sorry about the asterisks. There are so many I gave up trying to avoid them.

I'm amazed at that second paragraph rA, full of prejudice, lack of awareness and unfounded assertions. You've obviously not been in Nottingham on a saturday eve recently. And what is 'our own' supposed to mean? Bizarre.