Election Year or Fear!

[MadAmster]

The published figures for 2021/22 is £159bn – equivalent to an extra £415m per week. It does not end there, for the UK Government has published its NHS spending up until 2024 and by then it will have risen to £166bn – meaning an increase of £557m a week more than before the referendum (allowing for inflation). So like it or lump it, what that bus insinuated, could be done. The money spent on Polish motorways, was needed here

To quote you we spent £159Bn in 21/22 on the NHS.

My research, to which you replied, showed... " I looked up healthcare spending in 2016 and that was £191.7Bn. "

Now, I'm pretty good with numbers but I fail to see how £159Bn in 21/22 is £415M a week more than the £191.7Bn spent in 2016.

[swaledale]

No arguing with that, maybe 1,269,501 (the margin of victory) (or defeat I guess)

I don't think his were ramblings though. I think everything he did and said was targeted, the only thing he couldn't have predicted was how useless the 'defence' (the Remain campaign) would be.

By ramblings I mean incoherent poppycock with no substance behind them. Yes like all populists, his whole spiel and demeanour are carefully crafted, he knows a good dog whistle and the right levers to pull in order to yank the chains of those incapable of coherent thought. The mistake the Troy party has made, and, indeed other centrist parties in Europe is to accommodate these inane utterings and position by moving further to the right.

All that has done is increase the vote for the far right, I mean why would one, if is of that persuasion, vote for a copy when the real fascists are there to vote for?

[ramAnag]

By ramblings I mean incoherent poppycock with no substance behind them. Yes like all populists, his whole spiel and demeanour are carefully crafted, he knows a good dog whistle and the right levers to pull in order to yank the chains of those incapable of coherent thought. The mistake the Troy party has made, and, indeed other centrist parties in Europe is to accommodate these inane utterings and position by moving further to the right.

All that has done is increase the vote for the far right, I mean why would one, if is of that persuasion, vote for a copy when the real fascists are there to vote for?

Couldn't agree more…and before the shouts of ‘pilot’ and ‘rear gunner’ predictably begin from those who invariably fall over themselves to agree with each other over such issues, here’s a thought.

There was a letter to the Guardian - originally from around fifty odd years ago I think - suggesting that people tend to shift to the Right as they get older. It also noted that the average man over the age of 25 loses around one million irreplaceable cells of grey matter every day, suggesting perhaps that such moves to the Right may - not unlike osteoarthritis - be a further example of a degenerative condition.

Before the three degrees explode with righteous indignation I will add at this point that this comment was largely tongue in cheek. ‘Just joshing’ in AF speak…food for thought though.

[MadAmster]

... yet despite losing all those cells, we seem capable, most of us anyway, of discerning fact from fiction, truth from propaganda and show the capability of utilising joined up thinking. That's probably why none of us ever chose politics...

[Andy_Faber]

Couldn't agree more…and before the shouts of ‘pilot’ and ‘rear gunner’ predictably begin from those who invariably fall over themselves to agree with each other over such issues, here’s a thought.

There was a letter to the Guardian - originally from around fifty odd years ago I think - suggesting that people tend to shift to the Right as they get older. It also noted that the average man over the age of 25 loses around one million irreplaceable cells of grey matter every day, suggesting perhaps that such moves to the Right may - not unlike osteoarthritis - be a further example of a degenerative condition.

Before the three degrees explode with righteous indignation I will add at this point that this comment was largely tongue in cheek. ‘Just joshing’ in AF speak…food for thought though.

‘A recent study’ found that it’s the idealist / head in the clouds cells that decay, leaving more room for the pragmatic / feet on the ground cells to grow

[Geoff Parkstone]

Couldn't agree more…and before the shouts of ‘pilot’ and ‘rear gunner’ predictably begin from those who invariably fall over themselves to agree with each other over such issues, here’s a thought.

There was a letter to the Guardian - originally from around fifty odd years ago I think - suggesting that people tend to shift to the Right as they get older. It also noted that the average man over the age of 25 loses around one million irreplaceable cells of grey matter every day, suggesting perhaps that such moves to the Right may - not unlike osteoarthritis - be a further example of a degenerative condition.

Before the three degrees explode with righteous indignation I will add at this point that this comment was largely tongue in cheek. ‘Just joshing’ in AF speak…food for thought though.

But of course Grauniad readers do not lose these cells in such numbers?

It's fair to say people move right with age, I'd agree and see it all over the country. Mainly because as young idealists they by and large dont have much in the way of assets and so would be winners in any redistribution of wealth. The older you get and the more assets you acquire, the more you become a loser in wealth redistribution.

So simple self preservation move people rightward and it takes an unusual type of person to buck this trend.

Doesn't explain why the have nots move that way, but perhaps they don't: or maybe in some cases they already were there.

[MadAmster]

‘A recent study’ found that it’s the idealist / head in the clouds cells that decay, leaving more room for the pragmatic / feet on the ground cells to grow

Oh dear, does that mean I haven't got anywhere near losing the requisite number of brain cells yet? I still want a fairer world where the Musks and the Murdochs of this world can still get obscenely rich but that those unable to eke out a decent living get looked after...

[Andy_Faber]

Oh dear, does that mean I haven't got anywhere near losing the requisite number of brain cells yet? I still want a fairer world where the Musks and the Murdochs of this world can still get obscenely rich but that those unable to eke out a decent living get looked after...

If it means that it means we are at similar levels of ‘change’

[ramAnag]

... yet despite losing all those cells, we seem capable, most of us anyway, of discerning fact from fiction, truth from propaganda and show the capability of utilising joined up thinking. That's probably why none of us ever chose politics...

As you suggest - ‘most of us’ - unfortunately there are an alarming number who fall for the ‘propaganda’ and idolise the propagandists. Thankfully you and I are not amongst them.

[ramAnag]

If it means that it means we are at similar levels of ‘change’

If we could cease animosity for a moment (hopefully longer) I’d really love to understand where GP and AF are coming from. Seriously and genuinely.
Are you really so wealthy GP that you would lose out hugely if things were rebalanced a little…wouldn’t it be better to have slightly higher taxes IF it meant better hospitals, schools, care homes and emergency services…and why is it that MA, Swale and myself, none of whom I’d identify as being remotely ‘poor’, would welcome such change where you are apparently appalled at the prospect?
Andy…what sort of ‘change’ is it that you do actually support?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think if you read what I wrote, I don't express a personal view, I'm trying to generalise the reasons for the right shift with age.

But it's not a question of "excessive riches". If, for example, someone has saved all their life for a good living in retirement, they can reasonably expect to not have to give it away in taxes etc just when they need it. Hence the shift to "self" from "us" in later life.

[ramAnag]

I think if you read what I wrote, I don't express a personal view, I'm trying to generalise the reasons for the right shift with age.

But it's not a question of "excessive riches". If, for example, someone has saved all their life for a good living in retirement, they can reasonably expect to not have to give it away in taxes etc just when they need it. Hence the shift to "self" from "us" in later life.

I frequently read what you write because, ‘economically’ you are one of the most knowledgeable on here, and you’ve regularly opposed the idea of raising taxes to pay for better services.
I’m not suggesting that you, or I, should have to ‘give it away just when they need it’ and I don’t know of anyone else who is either…just that those who can pay more into the ‘pot’ could…for the greater good of that thing Thatcher suggested no longer existed…society.

[Andy_Faber]

I frequently read what you write because, ‘economically’ you are one of the most knowledgeable on here, and you’ve regularly opposed the idea of raising taxes to pay for better services.
I’m not suggesting that you, or I, should have to ‘give it away just when they need it’ and I don’t know of anyone else who is either…just that those who can pay more into the ‘pot’ could…for the greater good of that thing Thatcher suggested no longer existed…society.

I share GP’s reluctance to raise taxes/throw money at ‘it’UNTIL two other things happen - firstly, serious efforts at process improvement (my normally placid manner ALMOST cracked at the lazy inefficiencies I came across relating to a medical appointment I had last week) and secondly efforts relating to my mantra ‘help those who can’t help themselves not those who won’t help themselves (or only help themselves to benefits/riches unfairly). I think you’ll find the latter is pretty much on the MA manifesto.

I agree with GPs comment that opinions are widely drawn rather than personal

[MadAmster]

rA has it judged about right. In retirement I'm reasonably well off and can do an awful lot of things. 4 trips to Feurteventura in the past 51 weeks. 2 or 3 to Germany. One to Brussels. 10 trips to Blighty. Concerts. Meals out at least once a month. Can afford to feed and clothe myself well. Saved up enough to do a fair bit of sustainability on the house having ordered underfloor insulation and new windows to further reduce gas and electricity bills on top of the solar panels we fitted last year. Still have sufficient to cover any sudden needs if the central heating blows or one of the 2 cars needs replacing. Add in my pensions and 'er indoors salary and we'll be making as many trips this coming 12 months as well. Can't complain. In fact, if 'er indoors employer agrees to her working remotely, we might be overwintering on Feurteventura.

Would I mind paying a little more tax to improve services? No. Who knows when I might need a nursing home at some point in the future. Being a septuagenarian it's closer than for many of you. Age also brings more ailments that require medical treatment. The service over here is good but not perfect. No, a few bob a week extra wouldn't be an issue for me.

[Trickytreesreds]

PLEASE don't start with values, where were you last week?

away, having to teach values to my guest